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Jmac Regular Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2017 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:28 pm Post subject: 1.5c for a new player |
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Question for you people who know more about Trumpet playing than me. (My iPad likes to auto correct me and capitalize the word Trumpet for some reason). I’m a Trombone player starting on Trumpet. I’ve got my 7c mouthpiece which feels like it’s made for a child compared to my trombone mouthpiece (6 1/2a). Im a full grown 50 year old adult by the way. I was able to briefly try a 1 1/2a mouthpiece today and what a difference! The low notes were stable. I sounded so much better and felt more comfortable. I didn’t notice any loss of range on the high notes. Is there any reason I should stay with the 7c? |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2578
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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No. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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Dieter Z Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 Posts: 449 Location: Mountains of North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Use the 1.5 if it works for you _________________ B & H Sovereign 928
Conn 80A
F. Besson Brevette Kanstul made
B&S Challenger II 3137 rl
Buescher 400 - 225 (WWII)
Benge 90C
Eastman 540 D/Eb
ACB Fluegelhorn
Selmer Picc
ACB mouthpieces for most of my playing |
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Jerry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2157 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: 1.5c for a new player |
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Jmac wrote: | .... Is there any reason I should stay with the 7c? |
I second HERMOKIWI
No. |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Now that that's been settled, a tidbit for those reading this that are in other circumstances:. I started on a version of 1.5C, (copy by Schilke) found quick success, and as a very small 9 year old was playing above high C with control in 2 weeks.
It can be done. (Trying to determine what is ideal for a beginner is not always so easy) |
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epoustoufle Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2015 Posts: 232 Location: France
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: 1.5c for a new player |
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Jmac wrote: | I’m a Trombone player starting on Trumpet. I’ve got my 7c mouthpiece which feels like it’s made for a child compared to my trombone mouthpiece (6 1/2a). Im a full grown 50 year old adult by the way. I was able to briefly try a 1 1/2a mouthpiece today and what a difference! The low notes were stable. I sounded so much better and felt more comfortable. I didn’t notice any loss of range on the high notes. Is there any reason I should stay with the 7c? |
Given the situation, your main instrument is trombone... sorry, Trombone! So go ahead and play on whatever works best now and never look back. If your main instrument was trumpet then it might pay dividends to wonder about why you can't play on smaller gear and go down the rabbit hole looking for an answer. There is an answer - it's just a matter of how much blood, sweat and tears you're willing to spend. All things considered, it's not that much blood |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9828 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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razeontherock wrote: | Now that that's been settled, a tidbit for those reading this that are in other circumstances:. I started on a version of 1.5C, (copy by Schilke) found quick success, and as a very small 9 year old was playing above high C with control in 2 weeks.
It can be done. (Trying to determine what is ideal for a beginner is not always so easy) |
By chance, was that Schilke mouthpiece a 14? I played a 14 for a while toward the end of High School, then moved to a Bach 1-1/2C upon the recommendation of a teacher (who like me, did not know that a Schilke 14 is basically a Bach 1-1/2C). And one of my best friends played on a 15B in 7th grade and was taking things in our Marching Band Field Show up an octave on it. Bigger is not always a bad thing!
Cheers,
John |
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stephan Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 254 Location: France
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:57 am Post subject: |
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In french schools the 1.5 C is the most used by beginners _________________ 2018 Bach 19043 (Kanstul CG3)
2006 Getzen Capri cornet (Kanstul CG3)
1960's Couesnon flugelhorn (Marcinkiewicz BSC) |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1720 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:08 am Post subject: |
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For my money a 1.5C is too big for a beginner with undeveloped chops... but that's not the boat you're in, from the sounds of things.
There's a certain amount of overlap in technique such that (whilst different) you're probably in a good enough position to choose something on the basis of what works best and causes the least disruption to your trombone playing.
I'd definitely agree with a previous poster that there might be some benefit to be found in working out why the 7C (which isn't all that small, really) won't work and perhaps working towards adapting to it... but that benefit is probably much more on the trumpet side than on the trombone side, so it depends where your priorities lie. |
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Jmac Regular Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2017 Posts: 13
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:34 am Post subject: Leaking valves |
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Well I appreciate all the input and info. I went out and got Yamaha’s version of a 1.5c and I’m still having some pitch centering issues. When I tried the 1.5 mouthpiece it was on a friends cornet that was left in my car. The difference was massive. But it turns out my horn has leaky valves. The low notes are hard to control and I have to play fairly loud. On the Cornet (autocorrect caps on all instruments I guess) I can play at a low volume and my low notes sound great. Well great to me anyway. Now I have to take care of the horn situation.
Last edited by Jmac on Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Just a thought, but if everything is working better on the 1.5C, that pretty much answers the question by itself. I don't know if the mouthpiece/shoes analogy is a good one or not, but if we were to use that, it would be like asking if you should stick with a size 9 if the size 11 actually seems to fit better. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: 1.5c for a new player |
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Jerry wrote: | Jmac wrote: | .... Is there any reason I should stay with the 7c? |
I second HERMOKIWI
No. |
And to “third” that opinion, no, use what seems to work best. Which is NOT what I would tell a young student, most of them don’t yet know what works best. But for an experienced brass player like the OP, use what works.
I gave a Schilke 20 to a trombone player friend for when he plays trumpet, he loves it, I would feel like I had to work way too hard with that size.
Brad |
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Keiths Regular Member
Joined: 22 Jul 2004 Posts: 35
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:30 am Post subject: France |
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I was a band director for 18 years, and we always started beginners on 5c's or 5b's, depending on what was the head director's choice at the time. I picked up a very old copy of a trumpet players guide (not sure about the title, but it was old) written by Vincent Bach. I'll have to dig it out. Somewhere in it, he stated that he believed everyone should play the largest mouthpiece they could handle. He went on to say that many beginners in France used 1 1/2 C's, and that because of that, they learned to play the higher notes the correct way and had great high registers, in his opinion.
I'm not exactly sure what I think about that, but I've played a large mouthpiece for roughly the last 25 years and love it. I started on a 7c though. I always wondered what would happen if beginners started on 1 1/2 C's. Just curious. I know that goes against prevailing opinion nowadays, but has anyone tried it in recent years? Just curious. |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2660 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:39 am Post subject: |
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We just put 1 1/2C mouthpieces with all our school trumpets.
No issues. _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 892 Location: Nissa, France
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: Re: France |
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Keiths wrote: | I was a band director for 18 years, and we always started beginners on 5c's or 5b's, depending on what was the head director's choice at the time. I picked up a very old copy of a trumpet players guide (not sure about the title, but it was old) written by Vincent Bach. I'll have to dig it out. Somewhere in it, he stated that he believed everyone should play the largest mouthpiece they could handle. He went on to say that many beginners in France used 1 1/2 C's, and that because of that, they learned to play the higher notes the correct way and had great high registers, in his opinion.
I'm not exactly sure what I think about that, but I've played a large mouthpiece for roughly the last 25 years and love it. I started on a 7c though. I always wondered what would happen if beginners started on 1 1/2 C's. Just curious. I know that goes against prevailing opinion nowadays, but has anyone tried it in recent years? Just curious. |
Hello Keiths
i don't know if Vincent Bach really wrote this, and where; if so, i don't know when and where he has been in France to see all those people playing on 1 1/2C the correct way, with "great high register" (i'm living there, starting trumpet in 1977 at the Conservatoire)
This rule to put everybody on 1 1/2C, for ID, for rim shape, makes more harm than good. Most of the student are struggling with high notes, volume etc. here and there .
Among those who have been able to get a pro level, how many still playing 1 1/2C or mpc in this ID ?
i think we're going to enter again in the same debate about mpcs, IDs, etc....
If it works for your students Andy, great ! but i think it's an exception or at one point, you'll have to adjust, downsizing
best |
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trumpetman7984 Regular Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2017 Posts: 54 Location: Cincinnati
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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I would just like to say that a 7C was not made for a child and is used by professionals all over the world and is the single most used mouthpiece out there. I own both a 7C and two Yamaha equivalents of the 1.5C and I like them both, but the 1.5C just works a bit better for me. I would also recommend trying out a 1C or a Schilke 24 if you want a large mouthpiece. _________________ Schilke B1 Bb
Yamaha 8445 C |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | razeontherock wrote: | Now that that's been settled, a tidbit for those reading this that are in other circumstances:. I started on a version of 1.5C, (copy by Schilke) found quick success, and as a very small 9 year old was playing above high C with control in 2 weeks.
It can be done. (Trying to determine what is ideal for a beginner is not always so easy) |
By chance, was that Schilke mouthpiece a 14? I played a 14 for a while toward the end of High School, then moved to a Bach 1-1/2C upon the recommendation of a teacher (who like me, did not know that a Schilke 14 is basically a Bach 1-1/2C). And one of my best friends played on a 15B in 7th grade and was taking things in our Marching Band Field Show up an octave on it. Bigger is not always a bad thing!
Cheers,
John |
14C2 on cornet, so yes. Went to 15B on trumpet after 3 years. Other things sound better, but that is one powerful piece. |
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Jmac Regular Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2017 Posts: 13
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:21 am Post subject: |
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trumpetman7984 wrote: | I would just like to say that a 7C was not made for a child and is used by professionals all over the world and is the single most used mouthpiece out there. I own both a 7C and two Yamaha equivalents of the 1.5C and I like them both, but the 1.5C just works a bit better for me. I would also recommend trying out a 1C or a Schilke 24 if you want a large mouthpiece. |
I was actually thinking of trying a 1c eventually as well. I’ve been using the 1.5c for a week or 2 and I really like it. |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Bach put a 7C in every case because it was neither large nor small and was deep enough for a good sound with a rim (in the early versions) that had a nice grip without feeling too sharp on the lip.
I know a great trombonist in Baltimore who when he plays a slide trumpet thinks a Schilke 24 is tiny. On the other hand a good Chicagoland tuba player I know switched to trumpet a few years back and likes a plain old 7C.
Use what suits you best. |
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chuck in ny Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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i would go the step of comparing the 1.5C to a 3C. |
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