| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
rufflicks
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2011
Posts: 641
Location: Mesa AZ
|
 Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:17 am Post subject: |
 |
|
If you are in a large venue mic everyone and mix the sound. Balance the sound so it sounds like the recording. Some things will need more reinforcement some wont. Keeping stage volume low or relaxed will help the mix in the house. Only use monitors for those that need to hear themselves better. Turning down piano, bass and guitar rather than turning up the vocal monitor is a wise approach. Best, Jon
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/Rufftips
Remember this is supposed to be fun.
Last edited by rufflicks on Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lotta terrific advice in this thread!
Some questions:
What would be the best, most affordable array of sound gear for a band with six horns, four rhythm and a vocalist?
Best to get it as a package or piece it out?
What's the best supplier?
Our horns are in two rows, three reeds in front, three brass behind them. Could each trio of horns share one mic? Two mics? A mic for everyone?
Can you set and forget levels or must someone be on the board at all times?
In short: what's the best solution for us considering all aspects: affordability, simplicity, reliability, portability.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trickg
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5677
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Man, that's such a loaded question because how a PA is set up and how much it costs depends on what you guys want to do with it.
I know that for our wedding band, we're using a Behringer X32 digital sound board, PA speakers, and wired in-ears monitors. We actually use the rack mounted X32 - the control surface is a tablet computer. We can dial in our own in-ears mix with full control of every channel on the stage via an app for our smart phones.
Our band consists of:
7 vocal mics
3 horn mics
2 Guitars
Bass guitar
2 keyboard setups
Drums (7 mics)
On the surface, ours is a pretty simple setup, but it's not cheap. Nor is it easy to operate - there is a lot to learn about signal routing, mixing, EQ, etc.
You wouldn't want to share mics for the horns - each horn should have its own mic. The reason for this is due to differences in timbre/EQ, and differences in SPLs - sound pressure levels.
How much money do you want to spend? You can get wrapped up in a bundle of cash in a hurry just for mics and cabling, never mind your subs, stacks and mixer.
But, the cool thing these days, especially with powered speakers, is you don't need to lug around a rack full of power amplifiers, and with digital mixers, you also don't need to lug around a rack full of effects components such as a compressor, reverb, etc. All of that is handled digitally via the mixer, so you don't suffer signal loss with all of those extra connections - it's straight into the mixer, and straight back out to the speakers.
Getting a PA set up has some generalities, but it's going to depend on your needs vs your budget for what you'd wind up with, and this board probably isn't going to be a great source of information about that kind of thing.
There is more good news though - with the advances in technology, the gap between more budget minded stuff and higher quality PA stuff has really shrunk. A cheap system now blows away a high end system from 15 years ago.
Our system also allows us to save "scenes" - if we play in a specific venue, once we've got the mix dialed in we can save it as a scene, then if we ever have another gig in that venue, that scene can be recalled in an instant.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks, Patrick. We are a budget so we'll have to cut corners. Our horns are set up in two rows, brass behind reeds.
Do you think we'd be okay with matched pairs of Rodes for the horns in the middle of each row? That is two mics for the reeds and two for the brass.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bach_again
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 2481
Location: Northern Ireland
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rufflicks wrote: | | If you are in a large venue mic everyone and mix the sound. Balance the sound so it sounds like the recording. Some things will need more reinforcement some wont. Keeping stage volume low of relaxed will help the mix in the house. Only use monitors for those that need to hear themselves better. Turning down piano, bass and guitar rather than turning up the vocal monitor is a wise approach. Best, Jon |
Excellent advice. So many live sound problems are caused by rhythm sections cranking, then everyone else killing themselves to be heard, and inevitably complaining.
Mike
_________________
Maestro Arturo Sandoval on Barkley Microphones!
https://youtu.be/iLVMRvw5RRk
Michael Barkley Quartet - Portals:
https://michaelbarkley.bandcamp.com/album/portals
The best movie trumpet solo?
https://youtu.be/OnCnTA6toMU |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
homecookin
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 868
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Turkle wrote: | | mm55 wrote: | Sometimes there's another option. It doesn't work in every venue, and more to the point, it doesn't work with every band. But in some cases, the drummer and electric guitarists can play at an appropriate volume level to mix appropriately with un-amplified wind instruments.
Some of my bandmates (especially drummers and guitarists), and my sound-engineering colleagues, call me crazy when I make such outrageous suggestions. |
Ye Gods, I just got done playing with a quartet last night that had a drummer playing like John Bonham. I literally was begging the guy on stage to play at an appropriate volume but he steadfastly refused.
I utterly loathe musicians that play too loudly. That drummer will not be re-hired. If you can't blend at an appropriate volume, you're not making music, you're making noise.
Here's a tip for all the drummers out there - if you're playing small combo jazz, play a smaller kit! You don't need the Led Zepplin / ACDC drum kit to play a small combo in a bar! Ugh.
Sorry for the sidetrack, but as I just dealt with a "drummer" last night I'm still livid. |
Turkle...
You are dead on right.
I have played many gigs in the situation that you are describing.
It is very frustrating.
There's nothing more obnoxious than some drummer
that thinks the whole band revolves around him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
homecookin
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 868
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jhatpro wrote: | Thanks, Patrick. We are a budget so we'll have to cut corners. Our horns are set up in two rows, brass behind reeds.
Do you think we'd be okay with matched pairs of Rodes for the horns in the middle of each row? That is two mics for the reeds and two for the brass. |
Of course that would be a good set up for your band.
Your band is a different animal than the one he is referring to.
You actually don't need as many mics as they do, and
as sophisticated a
set up that they use.
Your band is not unlike the bands that I book, 4, 5 and 6 piece bands.
Although we do not use a girl singer, I handle all the vocals,
and I am the only trumpet player.
I usually use trumpet and tenor sax and a four-piece rhythm
section... piano, guitar, bass, and drums.
Sometimes I'll add on a trombone player. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trickg
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5677
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I guess I'm missing something here - what kind of band is this?
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:33 pm Post subject: Or, |
|
|
Swing band. Alto, tenor, baritone, two trumpets, bone, piano, bass, guitar, drums, vocalist.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trickg
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5677
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ok - well at this point it's above my pay grade. I understand close-miking and mixing individual instruments, but this sounds like you need some kind of omni-directional thing for the whole section.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oljackboy
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 290
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Another thing to carefully consider: If you have a mic for each player and an adequate PA, you can use a harmon mute. This can and usually will add another
color to your sound palette. Trying to play in ANY size venue with an unmiked harmon is a serious mistake. Unless the place is really tiny, in which case no mics, no PA, no problem. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazz_trpt
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2001
Posts: 5734
Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dstdenis wrote: | | Give everyone a mic as long as you have a competent sound engineer. Otherwise, better to keep it as simple as possible. I've seen too many live music performances messed up by klutz engineers. |
^^^ this.
If you are running your own sound and are not able to mix competently, mic'ing everyone is just going to take a bad situation and turn it into another bad situation.
That said, if I am a sideman and a mic is provided, I now always use it, with the assumption that it's the engineer's job to get the balance right.
_________________
Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A main concern is of course balance (which involves more than just who is and isnt miked), but the band I work with mikes pretty much everything, and not just in large or outdoor venues. My opinion is you can always turn down or on rare (for us) occasions turn off a mike, but if you need it and dont have it youre sort of stuck. As you discovered!
Brad |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
