Joined: 17 Jul 2016 Posts: 180 Location: Denver, CO
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:42 am Post subject: Louis
I've recently been going into some of the history of jazz, and of course much of it traces back to Louis. At this point, all of the Louis recordings are 50-90 years old, and the sound quality of the recordings isn't the best.
I keep hearing how Louis was a monster player, but the shallow recordings it's tough to truly understand what he really sounded like. Do you thing there are any players that can re-create his sound on modern recordings? Do you think anyone has even tried?
Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 1294 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:08 am Post subject:
Listen to the "Louis Armstrong Plays W.C. Handy" album. High quality recording. It was on Spotify last time I looked. _________________ Justin Dickson
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Louis' mystique is a combination of reality and hyperbole. He could play but contrary to legend he didn't have unprecedented chops - any number of classical cornet soloists would play rings around him technically, had better range, what I would regard as more refined sound. Louis had a unique style in the arena he participated in, his solos were lyrical, he had a big personality. His story was somewhat improbable - he came from poverty and became an international superstar in an era when things were a lot different for black people in America. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
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Joined: 17 Jul 2016 Posts: 180 Location: Denver, CO
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:14 am Post subject:
Robert P wrote:
Louis' mystique is a combination of reality and hyperbole. He could play but contrary to legend he didn't have unprecedented chops - any number of classical cornet soloists would play rings around him technically, had better range, what I would regard as more refined sound. Louis had a unique style in the arena he participated in, his solos were lyrical, he had a big personality. His story was somewhat improbable - he came from poverty and became an international superstar in an era when things were a lot different for black people in America.
Agreed, his lyrical trumpet playing- that in many ways matched, or just fit with, his unique voice. I miss seeing the trumpet players that would/could put down the horn and sing.
Last edited by vwag on Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2481 Location: The Big Valley
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:27 am Post subject:
Foist of all, most all of his Hot 5 and Hot 7 recording from the '20s have been remixed and sound great. His range actually was unprecedented. Very few cornetists of the time could near what he called "top G," something he practiced daily.
As for his popularity, there were many Afr American performers who found great success, all before the Civil Right movement: Hines, Lena Horne, The Nicholas Bros, Sammy Davis, Jr, Nat King Cole. The rub was where they could sleep, how much they got paid, where they could eat... imagine how many wonderful artists wouldn't so much as attempt a career when they were so maligned. Lena Horne tells that tale in her books of how discrimination pulled her apart.
Listen to his solo at the end of Jubilee, and tell me that anyone at that time could play that. Or even at this time!
Joined: 30 Oct 2012 Posts: 1838 Location: Austin/New York City
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:30 am Post subject:
Robert P wrote:
Louis' mystique is a combination of reality and hyperbole. He could play but contrary to legend he didn't have unprecedented chops - any number of classical cornet soloists would play rings around him technically, had better range, what I would regard as more refined sound. Louis had a unique style in the arena he participated in, his solos were lyrical, he had a big personality. His story was somewhat improbable - he came from poverty and became an international superstar in an era when things were a lot different for black people in America.
There's not one single classical cornet soloist that could do what he did on the horn, so comparing the two groups is utterly ridiculous.
I really question anyone who can't see the genius or hear the virtuosity of Louis Armstrong. He did have other hits beside Hello, Dolly, you know . . . you may want to educate yourself about his body of work if you think his "mystique is a combination of reality and hyperbole".
He filmed this days after having MAJOR dental surgery. Find me one "classical cornet soloist" that could play that out-chorus like that after major dental surgery.
There's more to music than the Carnival of Venice and Double C's. _________________ www.mikesailors.com
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2481 Location: The Big Valley
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:52 am Post subject:
Thank you Mike. Impugning the greatest player on the face of the earth, on ANY instrument, is an exercise is ridiculousness. Louis is beyond criticism. He invented modern playing, modern music and influenced everyone from Maynard Ferguson to Eddie Van Halen.
There's not one single classical cornet soloist that could do what he did on the horn, so comparing the two groups is utterly ridiculous.
I really question anyone who can't see the genius or hear the virtuosity of Louis Armstrong.
Try to read what I actually said rather than trying to build a case for heresy.
It's self-evident that the arena that Louis performed in was different than that of Herbert L. Clarke. Clarke didn't play jazz and didn't scat sing, as a technician Louis wasn't in the same universe as Clarke. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
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Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Louis
vwag wrote:
I keep hearing how Louis was a monster player, but the shallow recordings it's tough to truly understand what he really sounded like. Do you thing there are any players that can re-create his sound on modern recordings? Do you think anyone has even tried?
Byron Stripling has been playing a Louis Armstrong tribute show with symphony orchestras pops series. He's a mighty fine trumpeter who plays these tunes very well.
I wouldn't say that his playing is an exact replica of Louis Armstrong, though. Louis had a special sound and style that came through in his playing, and I can't imagine how anyone could ever recreate that exactly. Not saying there's anything wrong with or deficient in Stripling's versions—they're just a bit different, but still very good. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
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Foist of all, most all of his Hot 5 and Hot 7 recording from the '20s have been remixed and sound great. His range actually was unprecedented. Very few cornetists of the time could near what he called "top G," something he practiced daily.
No argument that Louis sounded great in his realm. Love listening to Louis.
His range wasn't remotely unprecedented - people were playing the Michael Haydn concerto on natural trumpet 138 years before Louis was born. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
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Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2481 Location: The Big Valley
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:38 am Post subject:
Pulling apart one element of someone's playing and holding against another in a separate "realm" as you call it, is nutty. Of course Louis didn't do what Clarke did. He wasn't Clarke.
Buzzing high notes on a natural trumpet is, well, baroque-en.
Pulling apart one element of someone's playing and holding against another in a separate "realm" as you call it, is nutty.
You like some of the others here are having a tantrum because of an imagined slight against a player you like. What I said I like about Louis just bounces off you.
Now you're mad because you made a factually unsupported assertion that I demonstrated isn't fact. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
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Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 1807 Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:23 am Post subject:
Robert P wrote:
Louis' mystique is a combination of reality and hyperbole. He could play but contrary to legend he didn't have unprecedented chops - any number of classical cornet soloists would play rings around him technically, had better range, what I would regard as more refined sound.
This really is a high degree of an apples to oranges comparison. He was a great musician with a compelling, original, and distinctive musical voice (vocal, or instrumental). I don't know how we would establish tonal refinement in comparing him to anyone else - he wasn't setting out to be in the mold of a cornet soloist, he was setting out to be Louis Armstrong, and in that regard he's the pinnacle of refinement. As far as how high or fast he could play - neither of those were the primary emphasis in his playing. I don't think we really know what he could have done in the practice room (or stage, if he wanted to) - the style he cultivated was primarily tuneful, which is not easy to do well, and he excelled at it.
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2481 Location: The Big Valley
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:32 am Post subject:
Robert P wrote:
EdMann wrote:
Pulling apart one element of someone's playing and holding against another in a separate "realm" as you call it, is nutty.
You like some of the others here are having a tantrum because of an imagined slight against a player you like. What I said I like about Louis just bounces off you.
Now you're mad because you made a factually unsupported assertion that I demonstrated isn't fact.
I'm mad? Nah. I've been called crazy, though. Just call me Ed
Unique, lyrical, big, great in his realm-- that's all you got for the greatest of the great? Yeah.... I guess now I'm mad.... let me check
If you want a deeper appreciation of Louis, I highly recommend visiting the Louis Armstrong House Museum in Queens, NY. They do a guided tour through his home. It's not a musicology lesson from a trumpet geek standpoint, but you do get a sense of his career and as a person, not just the persona.
Joined: 17 Jul 2016 Posts: 180 Location: Denver, CO
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Louis
dstdenis wrote:
vwag wrote:
I keep hearing how Louis was a monster player, but the shallow recordings it's tough to truly understand what he really sounded like. Do you thing there are any players that can re-create his sound on modern recordings? Do you think anyone has even tried?
Byron Stripling has been playing a Louis Armstrong tribute show with symphony orchestras pops series. He's a mighty fine trumpeter who plays these tunes very well.
I wouldn't say that his playing is an exact replica of Louis Armstrong, though. Louis had a special sound and style that came through in his playing, and I can't imagine how anyone could ever recreate that exactly. Not saying there's anything wrong with or deficient in Stripling's versions—they're just a bit different, but still very good.
KILLER FIND, a good example of someone offering a tribute in his style. Thanks for adding some great value to this thread!
You guys just reminded me of the following album. I'm going to need to dig it out and listen with 2017 ears.
Dick Hyman, The New York Jazz Repertory Company – Satchmo Remembered The Music of Louis Armstrong at Carnegie Hall
Label:
Atlantic – SD 1671
Format:
Vinyl, LP, Album
Country:
US
Released:
1975
Genre:
Jazz
Style:
Tracklist
A1 St Louis Tickle
A2 Creole Belles
A3 Funeral March
A4 Chimes Blues
A5 Cake Walking Babies From Home
A6 Potato Head Blues
A7 Weather Bird Rag
A8 Willie The Weeper
B1 Big Butter And Egg Man
B2 Someday
B3 Rosetta
B4 Saint Louis Blues
B5 You've Been A Good Old Wagon
B6 S.O.L. Blues _________________ A bunch of trumpets
and
A bunch of cornets
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