Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 1607 Location: Clarksville, Tn
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:18 am Post subject:
"Jake" was Don Jacoby. He was the lead trumpet for Les Brown and then the Ed Sullivan Show. He is renowned as a great trumpet teacher. _________________ Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.
I think this raises a critically important point. Horns are not closer to perfection the better they are. What makes a great horn.
It is apparent that great players dont have blissfully perfect horns that are incredibly easy to play by anyone in any style. I think this is the biggest area of misundestanding with many players. They assume that if they get a greats mouthpiece or horn all will magically improve.
I see players complaining that schilke never made a good horn, others say Reynolds make unlayable horns some even say they have never found a playable Bach strad. This is nonesense.
It is clear that all instruments have characteristics that the player must contend with and the greats do this as much as we. They learn how to cope with their horn and extract the best from it. Then we pick up their horn and it seems as unplayable as any other horn.
Players I believe must conform to the horn, they must adapt to the needs of the horn and then the horn will play to its potential. A horn is a machine, we are the instrument. A horn cannot conform to us, we can and must conform to the horn. Otherwise we tread a path of trying to discover a horn that quite by chance naturally plays the way we do.
I dont know about you but I dont want to trust to luck that I will discover that perfect horn.
Does this mean that the greats simply did this anyway and found their perfect horn after years of searching. I dont think so, Doc changed his horn many times, Chet changed his horn many times many of the greats kept changing, surely not all these horns played identically for them. Is a great player just a lucky player.
It has been said, "who wants to work when playing, find the horn that suits you" I disagree, who wants to work when playing I think the greats have answered that. Who want s to work, the greats do, its the amateurs who want an easy life.
Adapt to the horn learn to extract the best it can deliver.
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:39 am Post subject:
I think two things about great players horns. First, the horn clearly works for them, or they wouldn't still own it. I have played horns made for and owned by many big-name players, several of which allowed me to do so in lessons with them, and even allowed me to borrow the instruments (some) for a few days (if they weren't using it).
Most of the time, I have found that the instruments sound nothing like them in my hands. They sound like the characteristic of that model horn, to be sure. For example, a recently passed player played a Bach C trumpet with a 239 bell. I didn't sound like him on that horn, except that I sounded like I was playing a really good 239 Bach C trumpet. Another time, I played a Yamaha 6335 that belonged to a jazz professor at IU, and while I didn't sound like him, I did have that characteristic sound of the 6335, and it worked for me.
In other instances, I have found players with very specific customized instruments that simply do not work for me at all. Often times, it becomes an illustration of why I could not use that kind or model; sometimes, it was just the magic they could create with the horn that I could not.
I honestly believe that players can find multiple instruments that work well for them, and though they are labeled different, sometimes play more similarly than one might imagine. I also believe that some instruments, in the hands of some players, will always sound like that player regardless of the horn. For example, Mssr. André always sounds like himself. I always felt the core of Mr. Herseth's sound was present in the early Monettes he played, and in fact liked the sound difference a lot. He went the way that most do, in that the heavier horns simply did not work for him. I own three lighter weight Monettes, and they are great trumpets. I am not a name of any stature in the trumpet world, but I still sound like me regardless of which instrument I choose to play. However, finding "me" in some horns is so taxing that the instrument could never be a horn I would use in any type of work.
Find "you" in the horns that you have, and make sure the trip is brief and consistent. If that is what you have in a horn, then you likely have the right horn for you. If not, or if the characteristics of you are hard to get to on a horn, it likely is not the instrument for you, despite how good it may be or who plays it currently or did play it previously.
AL _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music
I remember trying Ghitalla's C/D Tottle horn and was amazed how terrific he could make it sound- my results were a little less stunning
I've heard that a lot. Not many people like/liked that horn. One notable player said that "only the old man could make it sound good".
Dr. Valve rehab'd the valves, which made a big difference, they were pretty worn.
Since it's a ML bore C, it takes a little getting used to. And, it depends on which bell you pick that day. It's a different horn with a 244 than with the a 239. I've heard he was a bit of an equipment geek.
The D side of the horn is pretty nice! _________________ Scott Kuehn
Joined: 11 Feb 2017 Posts: 24 Location: Upstate NY
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:10 pm Post subject:
I think it is like the Clark Terry demo where he picks up and plays some kids horn and of course sounds like Clark Terry. Clark Terry is always going to sound like Clark Terry and I am always going to sound like me. Oh well.
I think a pro might have 2 advantages over the rest of us. One is they probably get to pick out their horn from a larger pool of horns, sometimes at the factory so they have a better chance of finding that special one. Two is they are probably really good at recognizing the characteristics that make a particular horn special.
I think it is more #1 - have you ever picked 4-5 Bach 37's off the wall at Dillons and noticed how one played better than the others? Imagine if you could play 25 of them.
I tried a C tpt that Herseth had lent to a friend. It felt tight to me. I mentioned that to my friend, and he mentioned that Herseth didn't like horns that were too open.
I had the good fortune of playing Jon Faddis's Schilke at the factory one lucky day, while he was listening to me. No pressure!! Actually he was very kind and offered me some great tips.
Anyway, it was much heavier than I expected and played like a focused laser beam. I told Phil Baughman that Schilke should build this horn exactly the way Jon plays it, with the tone crown on the bell and everything. And what do ya' know? They did, well less the sterling bell and the double gold plating. HA! Yea, like I had anything to do with that! You could cut through steel with his horn.
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 2814 Location: Coarsegold, CA
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:19 pm Post subject:
Does it count if I OWN a horn played by a famous player?
I have a Calicchio 1s7 that was made for Don Thomas. Maybe not a household name, but he was a great L.A. studio player who moved to the Dallas area where he was top call for the rest of his life. His son, John Thomas is also a great lead player who teaches (not sure if he still does) at UCLA.
It's a great horn, but nothing to elevate may playing to his level. I'm not sure if my horn was played on this session, but it may have been:
Does it count if I OWN a horn played by a famous player?
I have a Calicchio 1s7 that was made for Don Thomas. Maybe not a household name, but he was a great L.A. studio player who moved to the Dallas area where he was top call for the rest of his life. His son, John Thomas is also a great lead player who teaches (not sure if he still does) at UCLA.
It's a great horn, but nothing to elevate may playing to his level. I'm not sure if my horn was played on this session, but it may have been:
That's a fantastic video - I first discovered it a few years ago and have gone back to listen to it on occasion. I'm amazed at how clean and big both of them play. Nary a missed note between them. They did a little better job of mic'ing Don than they did John. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Does it count if I OWN a horn played by a famous player?
I have a Calicchio 1s7 that was made for Don Thomas. Maybe not a household name, but he was a great L.A. studio player who moved to the Dallas area where he was top call for the rest of his life. His son, John Thomas is also a great lead player who teaches (not sure if he still does) at UCLA.
It's a great horn, but nothing to elevate may playing to his level. I'm not sure if my horn was played on this session, but it may have been:
That's a fantastic video - I first discovered it a few years ago and have gone back to listen to it on occasion. I'm amazed at how clean and big both of them play. Nary a missed note between them. They did a little better job of mic'ing Don than they did John.
Definitely one of my faves. What a trumpet section too, Uan, Gary, Johnny and Snooky!
I think this raises a critically important point. Horns are not closer to perfection the better they are. What makes a great horn.
It is apparent that great players dont have blissfully perfect horns that are incredibly easy to play by anyone in any style. I think this is the biggest area of misundestanding with many players. They assume that if they get a greats mouthpiece or horn all will magically improve.
I see players complaining that schilke never made a good horn, others say Reynolds make unlayable horns some even say they have never found a playable Bach strad. This is nonesense.
It is clear that all instruments have characteristics that the player must contend with and the greats do this as much as we. They learn how to cope with their horn and extract the best from it. Then we pick up their horn and it seems as unplayable as any other horn.
Players I believe must conform to the horn, they must adapt to the needs of the horn and then the horn will play to its potential. A horn is a machine, we are the instrument. A horn cannot conform to us, we can and must conform to the horn. Otherwise we tread a path of trying to discover a horn that quite by chance naturally plays the way we do.
I dont know about you but I dont want to trust to luck that I will discover that perfect horn.
Does this mean that the greats simply did this anyway and found their perfect horn
after years of searching. I dont think so, Doc changed his horn many times, Chet changed his horn many times many of the greats kept changing, surely not all these horns played identically for them. Is a great player just a lucky player.
It has been said, "who wants to work when playing, find the horn that suits you" I disagree, who wants to work when playing I think the greats have answered that. Who want s to work, the greats do, its the amateurs who want an easy life.
Adapt to the horn learn to extract the best it can deliver.
I play the same Bb since 2004 and I have try to change her with a better horn countless times with no success, that horn it was perfect for me from the first blow , no need to adapt anything becose everthing it was just right , I have try almost any highend/boutique pro horn from Europe and states market and some of them are real great horns like the Calicchio 1S2 that have right now for sale in MP but not perfect for me , why to try to adapt my playing to this horn , give me a reason , I am a very hard working musician in commercial field and I want the everyday horn my "main axe) to make my life easier and helps me to cover the some days 8 hour's of hard playing with no extra effort.
I dont agree with you.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs
Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 425 Location: New York City
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:40 am Post subject:
I am fortunate to have many horns and mouthpieces from great players over the years. Some of the mouthpieces are almost unplayable for me. Here are somethings I have and my thoughts:
Dizzy Gilespie's La Velle mouthpiece (used 1946-1957)- too small for me and super bright
Louis Armstrong's Giardinelli (late 50's) wide comfortable rim, easy to play
Miles Davis' Giardinelli (unbent)- I don't sound like Miles
Henry Busse's NY Bach and pre-war Besson. The Bach is a .462 7/7 gold plated and probably one of the finest Bach's I have played. His Besson is also incredible
Clark Terry's Olds trumpet and Flugel- I own them but have not played them (I am not worthy)
Don Fagerquist's Martin Committee - Medium bore, gold plated, one of the easiest Committees I have played
Edward Lewellyn's NY Bach mouthpiece - Great sound, but the sharpest most uncomfortable rim I have ever tried
Ted Curson's Mahillion 4 valve piccolo - for a leaky pre 1900 pic it is pretty darn good, even scale but quite tight
Joe Alessi Sr.'s NY Bach mouthpiece - large rounded rim, plays incredibly well
I have quite a bit more stuff and if anyone is ever visiting the shop I welcome you to try some of these things too. _________________ Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com
A few months back I played on a Benge 1x made for Dave Trigg...extremely tight and super bright!!
For the specialized work he does it must be very efficient, but I prefer a more open feeling horn.
Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 1607 Location: Clarksville, Tn
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:15 am Post subject:
I believe that mouthpieces and horns are like a pair of shoes. You have to find what fits you. Just because it plays well for one person does not mean it will work well for another. _________________ Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.
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