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Jafuentes3 Regular Member
Joined: 18 Oct 2017 Posts: 19 Location: Texas
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:00 am Post subject: Bad habits.. |
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Hello everyone!
Again, I can't thank y'all enough for all the wonderful information you have given me so far. It's been almost 1 month of daily trumpet practice since I first picked up my horn. (Happy monthiversary?)
Anyways, I would like for you guys to share what are the most common bad habits/technical flaws/mistakes you see in beginners (and how to avoid them/fix them) please.
I am a pianist and I was talking with my professor in pedagogy class; we came down to the conclusion of how much easier things would have been if we knew about small things that would have such big repercussions in the future..
I think a thread like this would be helpful to me and all beginners lurking in the forums.
For Thanksgiving week I am thankful for a wonderful trumpet community!!
All best,
J. |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:09 am Post subject: |
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I suppose the #1 bad habit with learners is trying to go it alone too much - whether that's by not having lessons (please, please take lessons) or by not paying the teacher enough respect and trust to guide their path properly.
#2 would be not practicing as regularly as instructed and/or practicing the wrong things/ways |
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trumpet56 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 623
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:40 am Post subject: |
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I have found the number one bad habit I see with my students is trying to learn new exercises and pieces at too fast a tempo. This leads to mistakes first needing to be unlearned before learning to play the pieces correctly. |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2322 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:57 am Post subject: |
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TKSop wrote: | I suppose the #1 bad habit with learners is trying to go it alone too much - whether that's by not having lessons (please, please take lessons) or by not paying the teacher enough respect and trust to guide their path properly.
#2 would be not practicing as regularly as instructed and/or practicing the wrong things/ways |
THIS. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:08 am Post subject: |
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Mouthpiece buzzing.
This is an advanced technique and should never be done by beginners. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:39 am Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: | TKSop wrote: | I suppose the #1 bad habit with learners is trying to go it alone too much - whether that's by not having lessons (please, please take lessons) or by not paying the teacher enough respect and trust to guide their path properly.
#2 would be not practicing as regularly as instructed and/or practicing the wrong things/ways |
THIS. |
Absolutely.
Brad |
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Craig Swartz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7770 Location: Des Moines, IA area
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Lack of adequate breath support. And not only in beginners... This, IMO, is where most "chop problems" start. Good luck. |
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jhahntpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 676 Location: Southington CT
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:34 am Post subject: |
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I've recently started private teaching several 4-6th grade students...
The biggest thing is not knowing to adjust your oral cavity for intonation. Playing everything like a low C is one of the worst sounds and they wonder way they can't "play high"
Not having a pulse and insisting that the metronome "messes them up." Of course it does, play in time!
Not using their tongues, hoo attacks, poo attacks.
Using hand positions that cause valves to stick
only "bopping" or playing the very beginning of the note and not playing though it .
Breathing after every note. _________________ Bb: Yamaha 9335NY Gen3
Bb: Yamaha 8310Z
C: Shires 4S/W1B
Piccolo: Yamaha 9830
Flugel: Yamaha 8315G
Cornet: York Eminence |
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jazzhorn04 Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2008 Posts: 289
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:52 am Post subject: |
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All of the above...
To add a few that I've noticed:
Taking the initial breath too quickly/not relaxed enough. We'll be playing an exercise that's 80bpm and they still feel the need to wait until the last possible instant before they inhale. Making them stop and do it again correctly only works once, then they go right back to it.
Thinking that there is a "magic pill" to getting better. I can't tell you how many students I've had that were so excited when they signed up, only to quit 3 weeks later because it isn't "easy" to get better. I also have a lot of students who will get frustrated and have melt downs almost every lesson because they can't nail something new on the first try. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9008 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I could have missed this, but it's so obvious . . trying to play too high too fast.
Not keeping your teeth apart to let wind inobstructively go out.
Screwing embouchure to get high notes out, the end justifying the means. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Lionel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016 Posts: 783
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:14 am Post subject: |
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If you've truly got it in your heart to play trumpet learn to,
1. Play aggressively. Play a tad louder than your peers. No time for shyness. Put some ego into your ax. Say to yourself, "I am da Man" and play like you mean it. Caution: truly conceited people or egomaniacs neednt take this advice. Unfortunately they wont take advice anyway so my words are moot lol (:.
2. Take control of your horn or it will control you. Timidity is always perceived as weakness by an audience. Conversely a confident player can get away with utter clams at times. No one is going to throw tomatoes at you.
3. Practice is great but you'll learn more practical technique in rehearsal and concerts. Once you learn to blow half decently? Schedule yourself in at least two rehearsal bands per week. If you look at the success of the Caruso system much of it is due to it duplicating the rehearsal studio in your practice room.
4. Concentrate on intonation and tone.
5. Learn some solid high notes. Develop a good solid F above high C soon as possible. Too many trumpets spend their whole life stuck at high C. Do not become one of them. Let me rephrase that. High notes played well and in tune are important.
Other notes. A teacher who can take you through the Clarke Technical Studies for Cornet is valuable. As this develops breath control, fingers and range. While long tones are pushed by others Clarke considered them kind of a waste. Why not do something with your fingers while sustaining a series of notes?
Learn to improvise. Jerry Coker's ancient book "Improvising Jazz" is helpful if perhaps kinda confusing. The piece of advice I found helpful was to collect an inventory of hot jazz licks. Memorize them and learn to play in most of the common keys. Now you'll always have something to play when the changes say Gm-7 to D-7.
After you learn most of the Clarke Etudes? Transpose them into all 12 keys.
It would only take you about 2 years to cover the abive material pretty well. Maybe not perfect but pretty good. One more thing,
Avoid deep, large mouthpieces with sharp rims. When you find a piece which you control well? (As opposed to one which is controlling you!) consider buying another one in the same rim but a hair shallower. Use one for legit, the shallower one for jazz/lead. Plenty of people will disagree with me but Ive always had better luck with mouthieces which do more of the work for me. Let the other kids struggle blowing Bach 1C pieces.
Me? I want to control my horn and be in control always. Someine else can tire out and hit clams. Me? I want the reputation as the guy who never tires. _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 894 Location: Nissa, France
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Billy B wrote: | Mouthpiece buzzing.
This is an advanced technique and should never be done by beginners. |
Really ???
so, my first teacher at the conservatoire put me on the wrong way 40 years ago, when he gave me the first lessons and lent me a mouthpiece to buzz it, before i could bring a cornet back home from the conservatoire, months after...
i don't understand how you and others can be so negatively dogmatic about mpc or free buzzing...
best |
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JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 894 Location: Nissa, France
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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i agree with Lionel |
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TrpPro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 1471 Location: Riverview, FL
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Lionel wrote: | If you look at the success of the Caruso system much of it is due to it duplicating the rehearsal studio in your practice room.
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This statement is totally false. Playing in a rehearsal and practicing Caruso calisthenics are 180 degrees apart. If you played in a rehearsal the way you are supposed to practice the calisthenics they'd throw you out. Or they should. And if you practiced Caruso the way you should play in a rehearsal, you would lose most if not almost all of the benefits.
Caruso's words: "Do not play music the way that you practice my calisthenics." |
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TrpPro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 1471 Location: Riverview, FL
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:07 am Post subject: |
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I don't believe mouthpiece buzzing is an advanced technique at all. I also don't believe you should practice for a month on the mouthpiece before putting it in the receiver. Wasted time, but not necessarily harmful.
Anything played on the mouthpiece should be practiced immediately on the horn. Try it. At any level, it will make your horn playing better. |
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sergeybondarev Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 160 Location: Russia, Astrakhan
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:36 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Lionel! Best wishes _________________ Conn 20A - 28A - 37A - 38B - 80A
Couesnon Star Flugelhorn
Legends Brass Custom Mouthpieces |
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Steve A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 1808 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:18 am Post subject: |
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TrpPro wrote: | Lionel wrote: | If you look at the success of the Caruso system much of it is due to it duplicating the rehearsal studio in your practice room.
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This statement is totally false. Playing in a rehearsal and practicing Caruso calisthenics are 180 degrees apart. If you played in a rehearsal the way you are supposed to practice the calisthenics they'd throw you out. Or they should. And if you practiced Caruso the way you should play in a rehearsal, you would lose most if not almost all of the benefits.
Caruso's words: "Do not play music the way that you practice my calisthenics." |
I've never studied with Caruso, or any of his students directly, but have spent some time working from Flexus, and based on my understanding from that (which is maybe not worth that much) - the rigid timing drills, and strictly structured long tones, sustained dynamic blocks, big interval exercises, and pitch centre exercises all force players to spend meaningful amounts of time practicing areas that are both already comfortable and uncomfortable in way that parallels real life playing conditions. This isn't true for everyone, but I think a lot of people tend to practice "mezzo" everything, at a comfortable tempo a lot of the time and accept flexible rhythm to avoid confronting response problems. If they make exceptions and bend rules for themselves in the practice room, inevitably they run into problems in rehearsals, and Caruso would force them to address these problems. Naturally, YMMV. |
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JVL Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016 Posts: 894 Location: Nissa, France
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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TrpPro wrote: | I don't believe mouthpiece buzzing is an advanced technique at all. I also don't believe you should practice for a month on the mouthpiece before putting it in the receiver. Wasted time, but not necessarily harmful.
Anything played on the mouthpiece should be practiced immediately on the horn. Try it. At any level, it will make your horn playing better. |
i've been maybe unclear : my first lessons (2 lessons a week, at 8 y.o) were mpc buzzing + cornet playing. But at home, i had for the 1st month or so, just a mpc, before the conservatoire lent me a cornet for home.
it was not a choice, but a necessity
best |
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TrpPro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 1471 Location: Riverview, FL
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing to worry about |
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kalijah Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 3257 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Bad habits:
1. Not establishing a clean, crisp and accurate and musical attack; for ANY notes, loud, soft, low, high.
2. Doing excessive lip slur exercises and flexibility studies. (While still with #1 above.)
3. Obsessing over range. Especially at the expense of tone quality and quality of attack. (No. 1)
4. Using excessive embouchure effort for low notes.
5. Waiting too long to inhale before a note and trying to inhale too much air in a short inhale.
6. Not inhaling through the nose at every opportunity.
and last but not least; BAD time. |
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