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New cup mute


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trumpetpatrick
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject: New cup mute Reply with quote

Hey all,
I'm looking to get a new cup mute. I already have an H&B and a Wick, and I'm looking for something different. I'm looking to use it in more of a solo setting, so I'm not worried about blend. Does anyone have any experience with any of these:
The Wallace adjustable
Peter Gane
Trumcor
Soulo
Or anything I haven't mentioned. Thanks everyone.
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sjtrumpet
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The EnSa copper cup mute is very good and a quasi-copy of the old Ullven mutes. The aluminum ones aren't good -- get the copper. http://www.schallstueck.de/english/ensa-daempfer.php


Besides that, the Shastock Cup mutes and Ray Robinson mutes are top quality.
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The soulo is excellent - all the best elements of the h&b (ie: it sounds like a proper cup, which the Wick for me doesn't) with the adjustability the wick offers.

The Peter Gane's seem to soften the sound a good bit more for me, if it's the sound you're after that's great but I didn't like it in a section at all.

The Wallace I had weighed something crazy - it was simply far too heavy for me... Sounded ok, but I simply didn't like using it.


The soulo is what comes out of the bag time and again for me
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might like the MuteMeister Cup Mute. Designed by Roger Ingram, made by Warburton, it's kinda like a Robinson, with a few improvements. I have one, and I think it's great.

I also have a Trumcor Classical Cup, but I don't use it because it's rather quiet. Still, you might like it if you aren't worried about blend and are looking for something with a smooth, quiet cup sound.
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In terms of sound the best cup mute I've ever owned is the HB copper adjustable. The drawback reported by most players using that mute is its weight - it's extremely heavy (it makes the Jo-Ral copper bubble mute seem lightweight by comparison) but if you can deal with the weight you'll get the best and richest cup mute sound available.

In my case I play a very heavy instrument [Adams A8] so adding a heavy cup mute doesn't feel like it's loading up the bell end of the horn like it would on a normal weight horn.
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an Emo Hush Adjustable Cup Mute. Horntrader.com sells them. They are adjustable and I love the sound. It's more of a Dizzy Gillespie sound than the H&B Stonelined sound. Also, it is very light weight. That's the plus side.

The not so plus side is the build quality. I don't want to be too critical, but I am struggling with a polite way of saying that it appears to be constructed of the same plastic used to make dish detergent bottles with a plastic cup attached with a large rubber band. I suppose that with reasonable care it should last for years (until the rubber band dry rots), although it appears to be cheaply made. It has some stick on stripes for appearance. It is adjustable, but not quickly adjustable. You have to fiddle with the rubber band that holds the cup in place.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the sound would please a musician, but the construction would not please a mechanic. That said, I would buy it again. The sound is that good.

Warm regards,
Grits
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trumpetpatrick
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey everyone,
Thanks for the replies. Just to clarify, I'm looking for a solo classical cup, not for jazz. Thanks!
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out the Warburton "Woody" mutes. Ron Romm is endorsing them. He's a pretty legit guy.

http://www.warburton-usa.com/index.php/woody-mutes
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lakejw
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumcor Classical Cup is my favorite cup mute sound. I'm a jazz guy so YMMV. But because it's adjustable you can get a wide variety of cup sounds out of it, and they all sound good.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out Facet wood mute. I really have liked their various cup mutes. They come in all sorts of wood which really do sound different.
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MarkZ
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: New cup mute Reply with quote

trumpetpatrick wrote:
Does anyone have any experience with any of these:
Peter Gane

I have a Peter Gane adjustable cup mute and bucket mute.

Among H&B, Wick, a copper adjustable cup of unknown make, and a Facet CJP, the Peter Gane is my favorite with the Facet second (these sound far different from each other). My daughter went to London a few years ago. I ordered the Peter Gane mutes directly from Gerry Birch and he delivered them to her hotel! Far better intonation than the Wick. The cup is a little delicate. I wouldn’t toss it in a bag to rattle around with other mutes. It’s worth the effort to provide a little extra care.

If you’re going to order the cup mute from Gerry, consider getting the bucket, too. IMO, it’s the best on the market. I prefer having it go in the bell rather than clip on the rim.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had a couple of Denis Wick adjustable cup mutes that I've used for classical and musical theater settings for years. I still use that mute. A few years ago, I decided to try the Soulo Cup Mute, but the cup part always felt too thin…that I might break it. No offense to the designer. I commend any that venture into doing new things for the trumpet world. I also found that the cup portion did not provide as soft a sound as I wanted when against the bell. I sold that mute and eventually bought one of these...

Harmon Model Adjustable WOW WOW Trumpet Mute

I can’t recall where I bought it, but the only place I can easily find online right now is…($50)…

http://www.frankandcamilleswest.com/harmon-model-adjustable-wow-wow-trumpet-mute/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIybDUzevd1wIVVJ7ACh039gSdEAYYASABEgIqZfD_BwE

It's red, so that's unique, and it comes with additional form-fitted, easily-removable padding inside the cup that you can use for very soft passages. I use it with the padding as a practice mute, so it's only lightly audible from one room to the next. There doesn't seem to be much back pressure, so the response and intonation is very good (similar to the Wick). Note that the straight portion is all metal (I presume all aluminum), so you might want to be careful not to drop (and dent) it. The cup portion seems like a composite of some kind, because it feels heavier than aluminum, but maybe someone else would have the answer about that. You might also be cautious when inserting it, since there is no rim covering, and it could, I guess, lightly scratch, or even dent, the bell if you get in a hurry.

I will add that it feels solid in the hand (it is a weightier mute), and the fit with the seal on the cup is very good, so that the cup portion won’t slip. I think the Wick also has a good fit, but this mute seems better in some ways…maybe the felt lining on the cup is slightly thicker. That said, there are still some color qualities I like when playing the Wick. With the cup removed on the Harmon model, it seems to maintain a more “convincing” straight mute sound, if the need should arise, although like probably all of these adjustable cup mutes, the straight portion without the cup is softer than most straight mutes.

Sound differences between the Wick and Harmon models: I hear more highs in the Harmon sound, because it is metal, so it may cut through certain textures a little easier for you when the padding is removed, of course. It seems to get a little closer to the traditional Humes & Berg Stone Lined Cup Mute sound than the Wick, while providing the color options that the more modern adjustable cup mutes offer over the traditional cup mute design, but those that are accustomed to the traditional H&B will probably not hear any similarity.

Side note: I’ve frequently experienced notes in the 5th harmonic easily cracking on me on the Denis Wick when the cup portion is tight against the bell or even with a little space, but less so with the Harmon model. That's kind of become one of my tests when playing adjustable cup mutes...if the 5th harmonic (particularly 4th space E) doesn't crack, then it's a keeper! I realize it probably has to do with how the cup interferes with the sound nodes, but it could also be a mouthpiece/horn combination issue. Maybe a shallower-cupped mouthpiece would not give me this result. I’m normally using a Greg Black 1.25C on a Stomvi Elite Lightweight or Lawler C7. The Wick has consistently caused me to crack on that E when the cup is against the bell on many B-flat trumpets, including Bach Mt. Vernon, Bach 72*, Yamaha, CarolBrass, Courtois Evo 1, Monette, Harrelson, Conn, and Callet Jazz.
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love my "Woody" from Warburton.. I use it often for solo work in big band/combo setting, and often at home practicing when I don't want to blow the walls down.

The Soulo, I find light in weight and sounds like it, an alright tone, it tends to feel a bit louder compared to others, the cup is adjustable-a plus. I lined the cup with a layer of thin felt to tone it down a bit.

The Mute Meister Cup is excellent, a lovely old school tone (once you file the corks down to get the proper fit) Blends well, but also warm and unique enough to solo with.

Denis Wyck is very versitile, fits in the Orchestra and Big Band alike, the adjustable cup is handy and gives you some variety.
The new-ish Denis Wyck fiber non-adjustable cup is crap.

Jo-Ral cup has a larger diameter cup, a different tone, but one that also works in many settings. I think this mute stands up to loud dynamics well. Comes with a felt ring that is fun to play with. I find this works real well in my Bach Commercial trumpet that has a slightly larger bell - better bell coverage.

The Stoned Lined is still the go to for many - once again filing the corks to get a good fit is a must.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I take this a little different direction, while still answering your question?

I own and use a Wick cup mute 90%+ of the time. Why? Because I play several different Bb trumpets, sometimes more than one on a concert, and at least two different C trumpets, some again with more than one on a concert. Those choices are often literature/style dependent. I therefore need mutes that fit each of those horns. The Wick allows me to adjust the cup to the sound I want for most music. I do have a H&B stonelined mute (actually about 10), but carrying even 4 to a single gig is ridiculous. I also use the Soulo adjustable, and love it for some things, especially solos. But, the Wick adjustable mute gives me the greatest opportunity for use on multiple instruments, and if no other reason than convenience, I use it a lot. Some might ask why if I have other mutes that might work better, and the answer is above. In the end, the ability to be able to bring a few mutes instead of 20 to a job just makes logistical sense.

Recording sessions are another matter, and often times in big band, with a single horn, I bring the H&B....or the Soulo...or the Ray Robinson...or the Charles Davis...or....you get the idea.

Hope this helps, or at least gives you a differing viewpoint!

AL
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
Check out Facet wood mute. I really have liked their various cup mutes. They come in all sorts of wood which really do sound different.


Great mutes, and I have a couple. One caveat; they MUST be filed to fit right, which means fitting it for one horn means it doesn't always fit others. Once filed and fit, it has a tremendous sound that to me is a unique and exciting as the looks of the mute, which I love.
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Turkle
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I absolutely love the Soulo cup mute and recommend it unhesitatingly. It's lightweight, adjustable, and projects enough that as a soloist you can ping notes against the back wall. The intonation is incredibly good on this mute. It's definitely my favorite mute that I own. Here's a clip of me with the Soulo Cup mute:


Link


I own a MuteMeister cup mute and I find that while it gets a lovely, old-school sound, its intonation is very wacky for me, even after filing down the corks. It's considerably quieter than my Soulo or H&B. I understand that others have had great experiences with the mute, but I am unable to recommend it based on my experience.
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favorite is the Ray Robinson, but I rarely use it in a section, because not enough other people have them.

I've not yet tried the Ingram one, but I hear it's quite close to Robinson, perhaps even better somehow. /shrug

I can't stand the sound of the Wick, but see it used fairly often, so I have one.

Most of the time I carry the 'standard' red/white H&B because it's what gets used frequently. I actually own two of them, one of which was my father's and has a great sound, and a newer one (few years old) that sounds like garbage and sits on a shelf most of the time. They look identical other than wear, yet sound totally different.
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lakejw
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandyTX wrote:
My favorite is the Ray Robinson, but I rarely use it in a section, because not enough other people have them.

I've not yet tried the Ingram one, but I hear it's quite close to Robinson, perhaps even better somehow. /shrug


I use the Ray for all my section work. Beautiful sound. Most folks have the basic H&B, which is a bit thin sounding to me. I think the RR blends fine though - it's at least on the same spectrum, not like something made from metal.

I have tried the Ingram/Warburton, and I'm not nuts about it. Definitely prefer the RR, followed by the H&B Mic-A-Mute (for section work).

Wick and Trumcor are better for soloists.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpetpatrick wrote:
Hey everyone,
Thanks for the replies. Just to clarify, I'm looking for a solo classical cup, not for jazz. Thanks!


Since the OP wants this for classical use, maybe an adjustable cup mute would provide more timbral variations suitable to non-jazz/commercial settings.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
Check out Facet wood mute. I really have liked their various cup mutes. They come in all sorts of wood which really do sound different.

This.
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