Mics and More

[jhatpro]

Our swing band plays in a noisy sports bar where we have a lot of competition from big screen TVs with sound cranked up and management seems to like it that way.

We’ve countered by adding mics for the horns as well as rhythm and vocals and last time the owner said we were too loud. So do we go back to playing with amps for keys, guitar and bass only or do we continue to mic everyone for balance but keep the volume super low?
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.� Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[trickg]

I'd continue to mic everyone but bring the volume sliders down.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[jhatpro]

Thanks, Patrick. That was my first thought but I wanted to run it by some pros.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.� Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[trickg]

I wouldn't exactly call me a "pro" - I do play a lot of gigs miked up though. We have played some fairly small venues where I am using a mic, but for the most part I'm turned off in the mix - it's coming through loud and clear, even with me backing off some. Having the mic there is mostly a thing where it's hedging our bets - if we do have to add some volume somewhere for balance, we can.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[Don Herman rev2]

These situations are always a PITA.

Firstly, you want the band to blend on its own, so you shouldn't have to balance using the sound board, but in practice that rarely happens. People get involved in the music and a riff comes along that the vocalist, sax, trumpet, drummer, whatever likes and all of a sudden they are too loud. Or you pick up a player or singer who plays/sings softer than the rest and have to help them be heard. Or the venue emphasizes certain instruments (boomy bass, hard surfaces that emphasize the highs, etc.) Or some players can't hear the others or the monitors due to poor setup (that may be out of your control due to stage layout and/or acoustics). Or whatever. Having everyone mic'd can help all of that, though of course the better the blend to begin with the less fiddling you have to do. Especially if you do not have a sound guy who can constantly gain ride the board. EQ can also help tame the sound by cutting or boosting the offending frequencies. It may or may not solve a volume problem if the direct sound is too loud.

For direct sound that is overwhelming the venue, there are the usual solutions such as asking everyone to take the dynamics down (usually forgotten by the third of fifth song), playing "quieter" tunes, playing into the stands more, setting up further away from the audience (if even possible), using more mutes (sometimes just a heavy cloth/felt bag over the bells), etc. Sometimes a portable sound baffle in front of the drums or brass can help. If it's too boomy and the kick drum is too loud you can throw a pillow in it. Etc.

HTH - Don
_________________
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

[jhatpro]

Thanks, Don! Lot of good advice!
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.� Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[mike ansberry]

The band I hired to play my daughter's wedding had a sound man who constantly walked through the crowd with his iPad adjusting the mix. It was perfect all night.
_________________
Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.

[jhatpro]

Technology can help and it can hurt. One of our local restaurants that used to hire bands has installed a music on demand system that patrons access and pay for by the tune using their iPhones.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.� Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[MaestroTrpt]

It baffles me that the venue consciously hired a live, swing band, but crank the TVs when you are supposed to be performing. Seems counter productive to me. That's like ordering a pizza with everything, and then when you receive it, you complain that there are too many toppings.
But I digress....

I agree with either (1) micing everything but turn it way down, or (2) go back to miced vocals and electronic instruments and have everyone (hrns, drums) play softer.

However, is finding ANOTHER venue that can accommodate your band an option? Just a thought. No one wants to play a venue where they are constantly being told to turn down. A live band is not a jukebox.

[jhatpro]

If I went into any more detail about the venue I'm afraid my comments would be subpoenaed.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.� Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[MaestroTrpt]

[cheiden]

I think it's really easy to over-amplify when you add mics where they weren't before. By all means, keep the mics and work on the keeping the levels down. And I suspect that you'll need to work on the drums and amplified instruments so they don't automatically crank up when the horns get amplified.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[RandyTX]

You get into an arms race with the rhythm section and you're doomed.
_________________
"Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away."