Question about terminology on hi notes

[Pops]

You are free to call them anything that you want to BUT:

Composers, Arrangers, Tuners, Students in Primary school and Players in most non US Nations, and the ITG ALL change registers at the Cs.

So A above the staff is A above the staff. A above High C is High A and Double A would be A above Double High C.

Most players around the world use the C3, D3, E3, F3, G3, A3, B3 and then C4 as the designation for the notes instead of a word name. You notice that the register changed at C.

Below is a more in depth explanation.

The piano is the instrument that most naming schemes come from.
They all stem from middle C.

Because of that the name of the register changes at the Cs.

We have approached this a little differently. We tried to name them Low middle and High. We all under stand Low G or Low C. (Even though it does not follow the other naming schemes.)

We all also understand High C (above the staff).

That leaves us with the notes starting on 2nd line G up to B below High C. Unfortunately the notes from G on the second line up to B below High C have NO common name. Middle C or 3rd space C is the exception.

The register normally changes at the Cs. But since we already call the G below the staff Low G that leaves no name for the 2nd line G. (People often refer to middle C but not middle D, E, F, G, A or B. That is because we broke a rule in naming Low G.

Therefore we say 2nd line G, G on top of the staff, 4th space E ect.

The Highs go from High C 2nd ledger line above the staff up to B 5th ledger line above the staff.

The Double register starts with Double High C on top of the 5th ledger line above the staff.

This isn't how other musicians name notes.

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Registers for every instrument start and change on the Cs.

In Composition, Theory, Arranging... the same rules apply for every instrument. The reason is so that they can call a note E4, F4, G4... or E', F', G'... and know what register they are talking about.

If we changed based on the lowest note then Clarinets, Sax, Trumpet... would change registers on different notes.

Clarinet has Low E and Trumpet Low F# as the lowest notes. So the 5th line F at the top of the staff would have been considered an octave displaced from the same note with the same sound on trumpet and clarinet. They simply couldn't have willy-nilly naming conventions. This wasn't usable for music nomenclature and so it was universally agreed to change at the Cs.

The ITG (International Trumpet Guild) adopted the system of changing at Cs back in the 70s. If you read many Journals you will see notes named C5, C6 or sometimes C'' or C '''.

Sadly even adopting C as the point of change we still have several methods of naming those Cs. A several hundred year old piano naming system and the tuner system are the leading systems.

The piano standard is VERY OLD. On an 88 key piano the lowest note is A. Yet the Registers were considered to change at C for hundreds of years.

Music printed in Braille use C1 - C8 to designated octaves just like tuners do.

Everyone world wide designates middle C on the piano as where the clefs change. This forever made C the starting point for registers.

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The C1, C2, C3, C4, C5 labeling is a way of naming these notes.

C1 is the lowest C and C8 is the highest note on an 88-key piano.

This is the system Korg tuners use.

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Piano talk;

starting with lowest C on the piano...

Contra C (C1; CCC)

Great C (C2; CC)

Small C (C3; C) 2nd space C in bass staff

One-line C (C4; c') Middle C on piano (low C on trumpet)

Two-line C (C5; c'') 3rd space in treble staff (middle C on Trumpet)

Three-line C (C6; c''') (High C on trumpet)

Four-line C (C7; c'''') (Double High C on trumpet)

Five-line C (C8; c''''') (Triple High C on trumpet)

=========== Trumpets
Low C is 1 ledger line below the staff.

Middle C is in the third space of the staff.

High C is 2 ledger lines above the staff.

Double High C is on top of the 5th ledger line above the staff.

Triple High C is 9 ledger lines above the staff.

Quadruple High C is on top of the 12th ledger line above the staff.

These are the names that trumpet players and groups like the International Trumpet Guild have given these notes.

============

So for trumpet

Low C is C4 or C'

Middle C is C5 or C''

High C is C6 or C'''

Double high C is C7 or C''''

Triple high C is C8 or C'''''

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[Bflatman]

Pops rocks

The only reason why this is in doubt is because impoverished players with little range want to win pissing contests and claim double A's that dont exist.

Octaves begin with C

The D above High C is High D
The A above High C is High A
Double A is the A above double C

read it and weep

[Rod Haney]

[razeontherock]

Just to throw one more twist into this, even though I agree with Pops and Denis -

since I learned to play piano before trumpet, low C on trumpet will always be middle C to me; except that it's really Bb, concert.

This ambiguity in the middle octaves served as a viable reason to play the written part in the octave of my choice, which usually meant 8va since trumpet parts in school literature are usually supposed to be powerful. This gave me lots of valuable practice in my formative years, and my Conductors loved it as long as I could make it sound good.

Consider it "plausible deniability," lol

[CJceltics33]

I have a further question. What is meant by “Super C?”

[kehaulani]

Well, disagreeing with "Pops" on this forum is courting disaster, but this comment seems to me to be a little condescending:

"Composers, Arrangers, Tuners, Students in Primary school and Players in most non US Nations, and the ITG ALL change registers at the Cs."

I have been a professional composer, arranger and performer as well as having performed (and known musicians) from Ho Chi Min City clean around to Moscow. So I fit into that classification. And . . .

"So A above the staff is A above the staff. A above High C is High A and Double A would be A above Double High C.?"

In my parlance, and that of most of my own peers, put A below the staff as "low A", A in the staff as "Middle A", A above the staff as "High A", and A above that as "Double A".

What this says to me, and there's no reason to question Pops' experience, is that there must simply be some dissention on the terminology and that there is not one infallible system.

BTW razeontherock, the above refers only to like-instruments-to-like-instruments (trumpet alone).
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[JoseLindE4]

[INTJ]

I simply prefer understatement and am RELISHING the day when someone who doesn’t know me asks me to play a High A.........
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[Craig Swartz]

If I'm not mistaken, "Super C" is an operatic soprano designation for two ledgers above the staff.

[kehaulani]

[Pops]