Musty old case aroma

[trpthrld]

Thought I'd give y'all an update.

First - thank you all for the comments & suggestions.

I don't want to admit it but I need to in that it is mildew / mold. This case has sentimental value to me, but not so strong that I can't junk it & hopefully find a replacement vintage Schilke single case sometime in the future.

I did try to coffee grounds idea, simply because it was easy to do and with it being winter, something I could try indoors. It did leave a pleasant coffee aroma in the case, but did not eliminate the cause.

I can't really do the leave it in the sun idea simply because my back yard is completely treed-in, so no direct sunlight would ever get to reach it & hopefully kill the mold. And if I left it in my front yard...I'd hafta chain it to a big tree, otherwise it'd go missing in no time at all.

I'll probably try the heat gun thing if I can find such a tool to borrow. Don't really wanna buy one for what would be a single project...project. If I get around to doing that, I'll post another update.

But for sure - thank you all again for the comments and suggestions. Hope everyone has a terrific and safe holiday & New Year!
_________________
Tim Wendt

www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be

[kehaulani]

[Morogan]

Something else to try is an ozone generator. You basically saturate the case with ozone gas. Some places use this technique with mold remediation and it should eliminate the bulk of the odors. The issue is how deep in the porous construction materials the mold has rooted. Sometimes multiple treatments will work.

A couple cautions:

* Don't do this with the trumpet in the case. Ozone is caustic and will corrode metal, rubber, etc.
* Ozone can also be lethal. You'll want to seal off the case and the generator in a area away from humans/pets. Once the treatment is over, you just wait about an hour which is plenty of time for ozone to break back down into oxygen.

I am getting ready to use this technique on a mint Buescher case from 1959 that reeks of mold. I'll update with how this goes once I get around to it -- probably this weekend.
_________________
My Gear

[LittleRusty]

[Morogan]

...all of which is why this is a matter of last resort when nothing else seems to be working.

As to the efficacy as a fungicide, the National Institute of Health records at least two published studies:

* A 2012 "Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture" study on "Efficacy of ozone as a fungicidal and detoxifying agent of aflatoxins in peanuts" which demonstrated positive effectiveness; and,
* A 1997 "Food and Chemical Toxicology" study on "Oxidative degradation and detoxification of mycotoxins using a novel source of ozone" which demonstrated effectiveness in high ozone concentrations.

There are other issues; i.e., the toxicology of "dead" mold can be just about as bad as living mold. Clearly, remediation by removal of the contaminated construction materials is, by far, the best solution. But for those of us that are willing to use coffee grounds, dryer sheets, fungicides, voodoo dolls, sunlight, etc. in a last ditch attempt to save an heirloom or unique piece of history, ozone is something that can at least be added to the repertoire with obvious caveats.
_________________
My Gear

[Robert Rowe]

My nephew was in the Army, stationed at the Fort Meade, Maryland, base.
He is a micro-biologist. At Fort Meade, he was involved with experimenting with neurological toxins such as Anthrax, Ebola. He had to wear a full biohazard suit, and pass through several "De-Tox Stations" to re-emerge in normal environs.

Guess what "kills everything" ?
Clorox.

He showered in a Clorox shower, while wearing the biohazard suit.

Obviously, bleach is not a practical solution for the case mold. But, it IS interesting that it does "kill everything".
_________________
~ Love animals ... don't eat them. ~

I miss Genghis Khan ....

[razeontherock]

The hazards of mold are not at all just becoming known, as one poster claimed. There is an insurance industry, and a disaster restoration industry; we have vast experience with this stuff, and plenty of good research too.
Fabreze does contain minimal quantities of stuff that does far more than merely mask odors, but it won't kill micro organisms.
Lysol will! And they make varieties that are specifically made for fabric. Not the best stuff on the planet and it may take some searching to find, but available to the public.
Another route is an enzyme like Nature's Miracle, but you do have to know how to use it, and the directions on the label are WRONG! That stuff is made near here, and they know it loses effectiveness rapidly due to being ready to use. (How long would you live in a sealed plastic container with no food?) This should be used before a Lysol type disinfectant.
Follow those 2 courses with ample sunshine, combined with bleach diluted 16:1 (meaning 16 parts water to 1 part bleach, or 8 oz / gallon) The combination of bleach and sunshine is known 'magic.'

Fun fact: by FAR the best way to go about any of this was developed in the wake of the anthrax scare post 911. We can treat any building, filled to the brim with yucky slimy content from many different disaster sites, in about 6 hours. Everything will come out squeaky clean, and fresh. Yes it starts out as a form of chlorine, (the original chemical warfare) and we need to be suited up like we were dealing with Ebola to start the process, but 6 hours later we can walk in in shorts and a t-shirt. I doubt you'll want to stick your case in such an environment though lol.

Anyway, you can save your case. And it doesn't have to cost a fortune. Technically speaking, the removal of mold via vacuum cleaner requires HEPA filtration, and the machine is then not only trash after a single use, but hazardous waste. A cool grand. Plus disposal fees.

[kehaulani]

Tim - did you ever have any luck?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[oldbenge]

Dry day with lots of sun. Took a few days, but the sun beating down into the open case seem stop solve my stinky case problem without chemicals.

[gabriel127]

Putting things in the sun is not an effective remedy for mold but it can eliminate the odor of the MVOCs caused by the mold. So you may have fixed the odor problem, but the mold is still there.

What might work is to put the case in closed container and run ozone into the container for at least a day. And even that is not foolproof because the ozone may not penetrate the material fully and can leave live spores behind. If it were me, I'd do what I suggested earlier, throwing it in a dumpster. I wouldn't be able to live with concern about being constantly exposed to mold, or the guilt of selling a trumpet and case to an innocent unsuspecting person that results in them getting a life-threatening illness.

If the idea of parting with this case is too much to fathom, I'd say, at least get the thing tested for mold from a mold specialist so that you at least know what you're dealing with.

I was talking to a mold expert the other day and he shared a story with me about a homeowner who cut out a square foot section of drywall on his house's back wall. It just so happens that it was infested with stachybotrys. The stachy spores hit him right in the face and he inhaled it. The stachybotrys almost killed him and he required a complete heart transplant in order to survive. Mold is nothing to fool with.

[jgadvert]

Throw the case out. I tried all the above.....and more. Sad. You hate to throw out a vintage case. I know.

[kehaulani]

Don't say that!
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Morogan]

I had intended to update my experience with some techniques mentioned earlier... and then completely forgot about it.

The good news is I was able to completely salvage a case I thought was doomed. I ran across this article from Practical Sailor. In it, they refer to a study done by Drexel University on the effectiveness of "moldicides", and the winner turned out to be an inexpensive homemade mixture of water, sodium carbonate, sodium bicarbonate, and tri-sodium phosphate. This particular mixture also leaves behind an environment hostile to the deposition and growth of future mold. People who work on boats particularly like it for remediating rugs and carpets on boats which have to exist in a highly humid environment.

I saturated the outside and inside of the case with this formula and placed it in a low-humidity environment outside (which was easy to find during the sub-freezing temps and high wind at the time). Once evaporated, a white powder residue is left which was easily wiped out with a damp disposable rag. (I did all of this with eye and nose protection.) I repeated the process a second time the next day.

It was probably overkill at this point, but I then enclosed the case with my ozone generator and subjected it to an hour of ozone. A few hours later when I pulled the case out and examined it, there was little, if any hint of any odor. If there was an odor, it was not the same musty stank from before. It has been a month or so now and the smell has not returned to this case. I still didn't keep a trumpet in this case since it was an experiment more than anything. Before this experiment, I'd tried everything under the sun (and including the sun) to get rid of the smell. I think, in this case, I've been able to salvage a nice case.
_________________
My Gear

[trickg]

Schilke cases, if I recall correctly from the few that I've actually seen, are very nice and put together well - it would be a shame to not be able to not be able to find a solution so that the OP can continue to use it.

I see a few solutions here that I think would probably do the trick:

1.) Use a fungicide that won't harm the interior matieral
2.) Leave in the sun/heat somewhere above 140 degrees for a decent amount of time.
3.) thoroughly vacuum out the case.
4.) repeat 1-3 if necessary

I don't know why that wouldn't work, or at least work well enough to render the case usable again.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[theslawdawg]

I have this problem with a lot of my guitar cases. Carpet cleaner (the powder kind). Get the one for pets if you can.

Sprinkle all over.

Get a vacuum or shop vac and clean it all up.

Repeat if needed.
_________________
My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs

[gabriel127]

Dumpster.

[Morogan]

[trickg]

[Morogan]

[MikeyMike]