Lead, Jazz, or both?

Trumpete62 · Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:46 am Post subject: Lead, Jazz, or both?

Why do players get labeled as a Lead Player or a Jazz Player? How many players, like Bobby Shew, can do both at an extremely high level?
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HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

JoseLindE4 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791

Many (but not all) of the greatest lead players were excellent improvisers. The difference between great and forgettable lead playing is style. Since the foundations of jazz vocabulary are rooted in improvisation, it makes sense that careful study of improvisation would develop a strong sense of style.

kehaulani · Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:58 pm Post subject:

Please name the top 10 top lead players who were also excellent improvisers. I wouldn't have thought so. Thanks.
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trumpet.trader · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Jul 2017 Posts: 200

Trumpetingbynurture · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898

I suspect he is referring to the earlier generations of trumpet players. From the 'golden days'

kehaulani · Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:40 pm Post subject:

"He" being who, LOL?
If that refers to me, I just mean in general. I mean, I assume that many can hold their own, but that's just an assumption. I just really don't know.
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y-o-y · Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:41 pm Post subject:

I'd add Lew Soloff and Jon Faddis to the list.

trumpet.trader · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Jul 2017 Posts: 200

deleted_user_02066fd · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

Roger Ingram can play some jazz as well. I heard him with Harry Connick some years back come out front and blow a nice improvised solo.
Danny Stiles, who played lead and featured soloist with Bill Watrous's New York Big Band is another name. Danny passed away some years back so many younger players may have never heard of him. I had the chance to rehearse and play with him back in the mid 70's. A really good all around player and a pretty good guy as well.

Yamahaguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992

In no particular order...

Wayne Bergeron
Greg Gisbert
Frank Greene
Tony Kadleck
Eric Miyashiro
Dan Fornero
Harry James
Maynard Ferguson
Doc Severinsen
Adam Rapa
Rashawn Ross
Arturo Sandoval

trumpet.trader · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Jul 2017 Posts: 200

We were talking about proficient lead trumpeters that are EXCELLENT jazz improvisers right?

That means can cover the jazz chair, or lead a small group while using real bebop vocabulary and mature intelligent harmonic choices and melodies beyond high note pyrotechnics that most lead chair trumpet players revert to while attempting a solo.

It’s a short list I’m afraid.

Greg Gisbert is a great addition btw. He can do anything and always sounds so good. A real utility trumpeter that can cover any chair and always has something positive to say.

BeboppinFool · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:12 am Post subject:

Pete · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:33 am Post subject:

A few repeats but some others not mentioned:
Bobby Shew
Snooky Young
Kevin Bryan
Tony Kadleck
Brian McDonald
Pete Candoli
Brian Lynch
Chuck Findley
Walter White
Bill Chase

Pete

JoseLindE4 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791

Being able to speak well extemporaneously tends to help one become a good orator. It is by no means a requirement, but it tends to help. When we look at some of the greatest lead players (see the lists above), we see the same thing. Being fluent enough in the style to improvise well isn't a requirement, but it sure seems to help. We're talking about great lead players, not high note jocks.

lipshurt · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:36 am Post subject:

Most good lead players are WAY better jazz players than pure jazz players playing a lead book.

Add some names
Mike hale
Benny bailey
Buddy Childers
Cat Anderson

Already mentioned but whose names can’t be stressed enough in a thread like this:
Lew Soloff
Jon faddis
Bill chase
Danny stiles
Doc severinsen (better jazz player than given credit for)
Marvin stamm
Chuck Findlay
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y-o-y · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:55 am Post subject:

trumpet.trader · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Jul 2017 Posts: 200

Dave Stahl was mentioned. How could I forget about him. He’s my favorite lead player on those Buddy Rich and Woody records. And he plays such great jazz as well. I’ve seen him in a few small group settings never plying a nite above high C and just playing the smartest most enjoyable jazz.

Another underrated player is a guy from Florida Chris Labarbera. He has high note chops and style as good as any lead trumpet player. So clean and pure and never misses. Then his jazz can be very reserved in a cocktail gig setting or he has just burning bebop vocabulary and such slick lines all over the horn.

kehaulani · Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:34 pm Post subject:

Thanks a lot, guys.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

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HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

I think we can agree on whether a certain player is a strong lead player. The problem is agreeing on who is a great improvisational player, too. Evaluating the strength of a player on lead is more objective than evaluating the strength of a player improvising. Lead can be taste specific but improvisation is even more taste specific.

What's the standard for a "great" or "excellent" improvisational player? Is it Clifford, Freddie, Woody, Miles, Dizzy or Wynton? Someone else? I don't know the answer. I think that's the biggest problem in compiling a list. I don't know that there are any lead players who can match up with Clifford, Freddie, Woody, Miles, Dizzy or Wynton in terms of improvisation. However, I don't know that Clifford, Freddie, Woody, Miles, Dizzy or Wynton should be the standard.

Bobby Shew is awesome. So is Carl Saunders. So is Ryan Kisor. So is Greg Gisbert. So was Snooky Young. Should those players be representative of the standard we're using? I don't know.

There are many lead players, already mentioned, who are also very good improvisational players. The two skills are not mutually exclusive.
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