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CJceltics33 Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 475
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:11 pm Post subject: Hummel Concerto |
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I am a high school trumpet player. My solo this year is the first movement of the Hummel Concerto. I'm sure most of you have played it, so--Any stylistic elements you recommend I add? Any tips on how to play it at a higher level? |
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MalinTrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 545 Location: Delray Beach, Florida
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:56 am Post subject: |
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There are many wonderful recodings of the Hummel. Mine will always be Armando Ghitalla but there are a host more. Just listen carefully!
Good luck,
LCM |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2036 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:52 am Post subject: |
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A few thoughts for you.
First, as previously mentioned, listen to great performers play the Hummel: Hakan Hardenberger, Tine Thing Helseth, George Vosburgh, Wynton Marsalis, Guy Touvron, Maurice Andre....
Second, make sure you prepare the end of that movement with the same attention and effort that you pay to the beginning of the movement. One way to ensure you do this to work from the beginning (measure 66) one day, and then from the end (measure 299) the next. Then alternate. Work in "chunks" of 8 or so measures.
Third, play through the full movement enough times to understand how to pace yourself. The first movement is long, and it isn't unusual to hear a younger player start to wear out around measure 260....
Finally, remember that the low G at measure 119 is just as important as the high Cs scattered throughout the movement. That low G can be tough to play steadily, with a good tone, if you are tense. [Edit: The same with the low C#, D and B at measures 139-141.]
Good luck! |
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minimamoralia New Member
Joined: 18 Dec 2017 Posts: 5 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:13 am Post subject: |
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One important thought would be to make sure that you approach the Hummel for what it is-a concerto from the classical era. I don't want to get into too many specifics here, but keep in mind that many younger trumpeters tend to 'overblow' solo pieces, approaching them in the same way they might play in a concert band or marching band.
I'd urge you to seek out and to actively listen to a few different recordings of the concerto. I'd definitely include Armando Ghitalla's recording in this mix, along with a few more contemporary versions. Listen to the recordings with your trumpet at hand and see if you can match the sound/articulation that the soloists use on their performance.
By emulating their approach at first, you will begin to find your own 'voice' with the piece. Too many people practice notes without being clear about the kind of sound they want to produce. Take this opportunity to listen actively and to develop your own sound. Good luck! |
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mhenrikse Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2009 Posts: 162
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:12 am Post subject: |
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I studied the Hummel in detail with Rolf Smedvig and his sound and style are my favorite (though when I learned it in high school the recording I had was Michel Cuvit). Most players play everything quite lyrically and nicely. That can get monotonous and boring. Rolf, overall pointed out that there are two styles in the first movement - fanfare and lyrical - that play off each other. There are the obvious places this occurs and the more subtle ones, for example ends of phrases, where the two styles transition (either smoothly or with stark contrast). You can understand a lot of the movement and how to play it by analyzing it in this way. Don't overplay some of the "hard parts" with the wide skips at the end. Here, Rolf wrote in my music "no big deal" as the feeling to communicate to the audience through all of this section.
The beginning of the second movement takes some planning to make all of the long notes and trills sound good. For me, Rolf wrote the word "mysterious" as the feeling to convey through this section. For ideas on the trill speeds, check out his recording. Note his clear, beautiful sound, contrasting articulation, and the ever present sense of musical taste. |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:56 am Post subject: |
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For even more insight, get hold of a keyed trumpet, or listen to performances of these instruments. They spend differently, and help make sense of the works.
Once you have listened to recording of great players (like those already mentioned) it is good to get into how classical music was performed. for that, you need to read up on treatises of the day, like Leopold Mozart and Quantz who wrote on how to perform on violin and flute respectively. They have a wealth of information on how one was expected to play and the conventions of the day.
This sort of information illuminates these works in a way that just listening (which is invaluable) can't. Then you will be working at a higher level than just playing the notes or thinking fanfare / song...
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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snichols Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Posts: 586 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Andy Del wrote: | For even more insight, get hold of a keyed trumpet, or listen to performances of these instruments. They spend differently, and help make sense of the works.
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Don't waste your time with this. |
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Gabrieli Regular Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 65 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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snichols wrote: | Andy Del wrote: | For even more insight, get hold of a keyed trumpet, or listen to performances of these instruments. They spend differently, and help make sense of the works.
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Don't waste your time with this. |
Listening to the fantastic musical performance on a keyed trumpet by Reinhold Friedrich would help you understand what the concerto is all about.
The recording with the Wiener Akademie under Martin Haselböck is about 290 years old but you can find and hear it on Spotify. |
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snichols Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Posts: 586 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Gabrieli wrote: | snichols wrote: | Andy Del wrote: | For even more insight, get hold of a keyed trumpet, or listen to performances of these instruments. They spend differently, and help make sense of the works.
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Don't waste your time with this. |
Listening to the fantastic musical performance on a keyed trumpet by Reinhold Friedrich would help you understand what the concerto is all about. |
How so, specifically? |
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brassexcerpts New Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2016 Posts: 10
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:47 am Post subject: |
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snichols wrote: | Gabrieli wrote: | snichols wrote: | Andy Del wrote: | For even more insight, get hold of a keyed trumpet, or listen to performances of these instruments. They spend differently, and help make sense of the works.
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Don't waste your time with this. |
Listening to the fantastic musical performance on a keyed trumpet by Reinhold Friedrich would help you understand what the concerto is all about. |
How so, specifically? |
Specifically, a keyed trumpet has differences in the way it sounds when using keys. That nuance needs to be taken into account when performing on them, and you end up NOT sounding perfectly even across the work. There are places where you can be more heraldic, and others where you have to work to create a sound that blends the differing characteristics of each note better.
I found it helped enormously in preparing Haydn, especially in the second movement. For Hummel, it will illuminate just how different the key change makes the work feel and how differently it can be presented to audience.
To go on any more won't make sense, as you need to experience it...
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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CJceltics33 Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 475
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the replies so far. Another thing--how can i ensure I have enough endurance to get through the whole piece? The end is definitely the most demanding, and it's hard for me to get all the way through with enough juice for te end. |
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CJceltics33 Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 475
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the replies so far. Another thing--how can i ensure I have enough endurance to get through the whole piece? The end is definitely the most demanding, and it's hard for me to get all the way through with enough juice for te end. |
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homecookin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2013 Posts: 868
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Andy Del wrote: | snichols wrote: | Gabrieli wrote: | snichols wrote: | Andy Del wrote: | For even more insight, get hold of a keyed trumpet, or listen to performances of these instruments. They spend differently, and help make sense of the works.
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Don't waste your time with this. |
Listening to the fantastic musical performance on a keyed trumpet by Reinhold Friedrich would help you understand what the concerto is all about. |
How so, specifically? |
Specifically, a keyed trumpet has differences in the way it sounds when using keys. That nuance needs to be taken into account when performing on them, and you end up NOT sounding perfectly even across the work. There are places where you can be more heraldic, and others where you have to work to create a sound that blends the differing characteristics of each note better.
I found it helped enormously in preparing Haydn, especially in the second movement. For Hummel, it will illuminate just how different the key change makes the work feel and how differently it can be presented to audience.
To go on any more won't make sense, as you need to experience it...
cheers
Andy |
snichols was RIGHT !!!
Don't waste your time with this NONSENSE.
The OP is in high school not graduate school.
He is not preparing a musicology dissertation.
The OP needs to spend time listening to recorded
examples by world-class players and spend the majority
of his time practicing and emulating the phrasing, dynamics,
TONE, and articulation of those world-class players.
And then use that experience to develop his own concept of how the
Hummel Concerto should be played on a modern trumpet.
Save the hoity-toity, high falutin, keyed trumpet crap !!!
for grad school.
Last edited by homecookin on Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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CJceltics33 wrote: | how can i ensure I have enough endurance to get through the whole piece? |
Something I do to prepare when endurance is an issue is to make a list of the tricky excerpts and run through them over and over again in the weeks leading up to the performance, playing them really slowly, at performance tempo, and faster than that too. It isn't enough to play them accurately at performance tempo; the extra familiarity helps me play them more efficiently. You can pick up some additional endurance by learning to get through the tricky parts without working so hard. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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homecookin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2013 Posts: 868
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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dstdenis wrote: | CJceltics33 wrote: | how can i ensure I have enough endurance to get through the whole piece? |
Something I do to prepare when endurance is an issue is to make a list of the tricky excerpts and run through them over and over again in the weeks leading up to the performance, playing them really slowly, at performance tempo, and faster than that too. It isn't enough to play them accurately at performance tempo; the extra familiarity helps me play them more efficiently. You can pick up some additional endurance by learning to get through the tricky parts without working so hard. |
This is good advice.
Practicing in the manner that is described in this post will not
only help with endurance issues, but will also help you gain a
sense of confidence when you perform.
In addition to practicing the concerto itself, it will help with
endurance to practice fundamentals such as soft long tones
throughout your entire range. |
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JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Endurance
1. Ensure your playing is efficient as possible by not neglecting fundamental practice. Don't just practice the piece.
2. Ensure you can play the piece as easily as possible by working it up in small chunks. Phrase by phrase, sing (IN TUNE) -> mouthpiece slurred/glissed from note to note (if you find mouthpiece playing helpful) -> slurred slowly on the horn -> as written. Keep at this process until the performance. Over time,work on longer chunks. This is a foolproof method for learning difficult music.
3. Make a list of the hard licks and practice them daily - sing, mouthpiece, slur.
4. In the weeks leading up to the performance, learn the pacing of the piece. Run through it with a recording. Don't stop and fix things. Be patient with yourself and don't overdo this. Aim to be able to run it back to back about two weeks before the performance. Don't do this everyday. Taper off this a little as the big day approaches.
5. Sleep plenty, eat well, drink water, and exercise.
Style
1. Good recordings on modern ibstruments are fine.
2. The piece only really makes sense in the context of the keyed trumpet.
3. There's no reason a high schooler can't be a thoughtful musician and consider the broader historical context.
4. Young musicians are capable of functioning as more mature musicians if we ask them to do so
5. It's never a waste of time to develop a deeper understanding of the instrument and its music. |
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homecookin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2013 Posts: 868
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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JoseLindE4 wrote: | Endurance
1. Ensure your playing is efficient as possible by not neglecting fundamental practice. Don't just practice the piece.
2. Ensure you can play the piece as easily as possible by working it up in small chunks. Phrase by phrase, sing (IN TUNE) -> mouthpiece slurred/glissed from note to note (if you find mouthpiece playing helpful) -> slurred slowly on the horn -> as written. Keep at this process until the performance. Over time,work on longer chunks. This is a foolproof method for learning difficult music.
3. Make a list of the hard licks and practice them daily - sing, mouthpiece, slur.
4. In the weeks leading up to the performance, learn the pacing of the piece. Run through it with a recording. Don't stop and fix things. Be patient with yourself and don't overdo this. Aim to be able to run it back to back about two weeks before the performance. Don't do this everyday. Taper off this a little as the big day approaches.
5. Sleep plenty, eat well, drink water, and exercise.
Style
1. Good recordings on modern ibstruments are fine.
2. The piece only really makes sense in the context of the keyed trumpet.
3. There's no reason a high schooler can't be a thoughtful musician and consider the broader historical context.
4. Young musicians are capable of functioning as more mature musicians if we ask them to do so
5. It's never a waste of time to develop a deeper understanding of the instrument and its music. |
Concerning the keyed trumpet...
All of that would be absolutely wonderful if one has
time for all that.
The last time I checked, in the real world,
a high school student's day is pretty busy with
a lot of things that are absolutely not trumpet or
music related.
I still maintain that the time he wasted with the keyed trumpet
would be time better spent listening and practicing.
His time would be also better spent performing a few dry runs
for friends and family before the day of the solo and ensemble
contest.
Last edited by homecookin on Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:15 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Despite being technically accessible to a younger player, the Hummel is a pretty substantial piece to deal with musically. It's one of our major works. If a young player lacks the maturity to deal with it in it's broader context, then perhaps they should study a different piece that is more appropriate for their musical development. Just because you can play all the notes doesn't mean that you can make music with them.
Tracking down a keyed trumpet might be difficult, but there are recordings of fantastic performers playing the instrument. There's no reason a young player shouldn't learn the history of the work, the performance issues inherent in the instrument, and spend careful time studying the differences between modern recordings and recordings on historical instruments. This should be the minimum required when dealing with a piece such as this, even for a young player.
The Leopold Mozart treatise is freely available in English online on Scribd. There is one chapter of the Quantz in English on Imslp. Reading is free. So is interlibrary loan (usually). Go to your library and ask your librarian for help in tracking down these books. It's a good learning experience even beyond music. Understanding sources and tracking things down are useful skills to have that many adults lack. Surely a high school student could apply this research towards other assignments in other classes. Get excited about something and find a teacher to support you.
The initial question asked about style. There is no way to understand the style without understanding the instrument for which it was written. If a trumpet player only listened to Maynard and tried to play lead on a Basie chart, it would sound comically wrong. The same goes for playing Haydn or Hummel without studying the instruments for which they were written. |
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homecookin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2013 Posts: 868
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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JoseLindE4 wrote: | Despite being technically accessible to a younger player, the Hummel is a pretty substantial piece to deal with musically. It's one of our major works. If a young player lacks the maturity to deal with it in it's broader context, then perhaps they should study a different piece that is more appropriate for their musical development. Just because you can play all the notes doesn't mean that you can make music with them.
Tracking down a keyed trumpet might be difficult, but there are recordings of fantastic performers playing the instrument. There's no reason a young player shouldn't learn the history of the work, the performance issues inherent in the instrument, and spend careful time studying the differences between modern recordings and recordings on historical instruments. This should be the minimum required when dealing with a piece such as this, even for a young player.
The Leopold Mozart treatise is freely available in English online on Scribd. There is one chapter of the Quantz in English on Imslp. Reading is free. So is interlibrary loan (usually). Go to your library and ask your librarian for help in tracking down these books. It's a good learning experience even beyond music. Understanding sources and tracking things down are useful skills to have that many adults lack. Surely a high school student could apply this research towards other assignments in other classes. Get excited about something and find a teacher to support you.
The initial question asked about style. There is no way to understand the style without understanding the instrument for which it was written. If a trumpet player only listened to Maynard and tried to play lead on a Basie chart, it would sound comically wrong. The same goes for playing Haydn or Hummel without studying the instruments for which they were written. |
REALLY ???
In his initial post, the OP asked for any advice to help him play the
first movement of the Hummel Concerto at a higher level.
Most people that posted, suggested that he listen to good recordings
of the work.
You wrote:
"If a young player lacks the maturity to deal with it in its broader context,
then perhaps they should study a different piece that is more appropriate
for their musical development. Just because you can play all the notes doesn't
mean that you can make music with them."
REALLY ?... how insulting and arrogant is that ?
I think the OP is showing a great deal of maturity
by asking other TRUMPET PLAYERS
for advice on how to play the first movement of the Hummel
at a "higher level".
Why should this young man jump through all the hoops that you listed
to try to find
recordings on a keyed trumpet ?
Why should he do that when he can very easily do a search on YouTube
for the Hummel Trumpet Concerto and come up with performances by the
the following artists...
Wynton Marsalis
Tine Thing Helseth
Maurice Andre
Alison Balsom
Gerard Schwarz...
these are just a few examples.
I'm pretty sure if the OP
takes a little bit of time and
listens to just a few of those
artists he will get a pretty good
handle on how to play the work.
Let us know when you get back from
PLANET NEPOMUK ! |
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