My 1 week long playing collapses

[SaxoTrump]

I've been playing trumpet as an amateur for almost 10 years now and I believe I finally got the proper feel of it if you know what I mean. That is I no longer rely on pressure, I settled on a center-focused embouchure with good lips padding and I know how to control the air. For my amateur needs that's all I need.

What worries me however is that from time to time I experience dramatic 1 week long collapses in my playing abilities. In the worst case it can take up to 2 weeks!
A usual scenario goes like this: I play normally for a couple of months within my current range and from day to day it goes without much variation. I play/practice for couple hours a day. Sometimes there are 'bad days' but I now know how to deal with them: it takes just a little longer to warm up and I can turn one into a 'tolerable day'.

Then suddenly with no apparent reason one day I take out the trumpet and I feel that my lips just don't want to play. There is no vibration in them at all. They feel completely like I'm blowing through cotton wool. It's not like a typical 'bad day' that I described above. It's something different I can't explain. No amount of warm up can cure that state. It's just like wasting my time on trumpet. It just "doesn't play".

It will last for at least one week (sometimes up to 2 weeks) and then at some point it will just 'click' and return to normal.

I experienced that effect right from the beginning of my trumpet playing and over years I kept telling myself: "Some day it will stop and I'll learn to play without those collapses". It doesn't happen! What might be the reason?

I've always tried to mentally project this 'collapsed lips state' onto my overall physical feel and I could find no correlation. For instance, I do push ups in the beginning of my day. Some days I can feel tired pushing up and those correspond to 'normal' 2 months trumpet playing periods.
On the other hand when a '1 week trumpet collapse' comes I may feel myself perfectly fit with pushing up exercises.

I want to reiterate once again: it's really a 'collapsed' 1(2) week(s) of actually almost not being able to play at all, not just your typical 'bad day'. Am I alone on this?

[etc-etc]

Sorry to answer with questions, but these might be helpful for better diagnosis.

1. How is your saxophone embouchure doing on the "collapse" days for your trumpet (from your alias, I gather you do play saxophone, too)?

2. Is your trumpet in good mechanical alignment on these days? Leaky corks, partially rotated pistons etc?

3. How is your free buzzing on a mouthpiece on good vs bad days?

[CJceltics33]

I dislike associating a problem with a mouthpiece, however, inconsistency could be a sign that your mouthpiece is too small for you. Why? Because in that small cup, a little change makes a lot of difference. This causes embouchure inconsistency, leading to "bad days."

Similarly, watch out for exercises that may cause you to alter your embouchure. For example, pedal tones, whisper exercises, and high notes. Be aware of any differences happening inside your embouchure from note to note.

Play soft. This may help your lip responsiveness, making those bad days less bad. Scales, Clarke exercises, etc.

Be aware of overtraining. A strenuous practice may cause a rough day. Maybe take it easy the following day. Go easier on the lip spurs, loud volume exercises, high notes, or any isometrics you may do.

Improve endurance to make the strenuous practices not so bad.

Good luck!
CJ

[SaxoTrump]

[SaxoTrump]

Thanks for useful hints.
I was thinking about over-training or doing something completely new in a persistent manner. I understand it can cause temporary loss of lips control for a next day session. But a whole week off? Can that be possible with over-training?

[dstdenis]

These are the kinds of questions I'd be asking myself to look for patterns that could help identify possible causes: How often or frequently do these collapses occur (once a year, twice a year, etc.)? Do they happen at the same time(s) of year, or at random times? Is there any correlation with seasons of the year? Is there any lip swelling? Is it related to strenuous playing and over-exertion? Is it related to playing commitments or activity with bands/organizations? Might it be related to medications or health issues? Dehydration?

If you can identify patterns, symptoms, causes, etc., then you can find solutions. Good luck.
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[roynj]

[Andy Del]

It sounds as if you continue on to your trumpet, even though things are not right. I would suspect that this is the normal sate of affairs for you, even if you don't notice small subtle issues in your playing. this adds up and all of a sudden, you ned (as in NEED) to take time off.

My thought is to to take even more care setting up each day. Get the basics right, and if they are not, STAY with them until they are. The risk is we get caught up in preparing to perform XYZ, and so forget, ignore, don't bother with our essential setup. Unlike a piano, which works for ALL players (just hit the key) we play an instrument which is a human sound, and that needs a lot more TLC.

Then, a day with 'no buzz' but you work don THAT, becomes a day of positive practice - hopefully, things get better from there...

Hope that helps.

cheers

andy
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[Robert P]

[SaxoTrump]

I was taking lessons but my teacher could not explain my 1-week embouchure collapses. So I posted this thread to hear from other people if they possibly experience anything similar.

Please note: what I mean by these "1 week collapses" and I need to repeat that, it's not a typical "bad trumpet day". When I experience a 'bad day' I can deal with that through some longer warm-up.

When these 'collapsed weeks' come there is nothing I can do about it. It happens once a couple months. When that happens I almost cannot play as my lips feel completely like cotton wool. They don't vibrate. There is no power in them. No, they don't swell. My lips never swell. I don't even know what to do to make lips swell.

Please ignore that 'center-focused' embouchure notion. I just wanted to emphasize that I don't use smiley embouchure and as such I don't rely on MP pressure.

[Robert P]

[HornnOOb]

I had similar issues in my early months of playing. I was playing too much too soon and wearing my chops down. And even years later, when I would play too long without taking breaks, I would whack my chops out of alignment. So, I suggest that you get plenty of quality sleep t night and cut back on your playing. Maybe take a day or two off every so often. I have found that when I don't drive myself so hard and takes frequently during my practice sessions, I haven't had any problems with straining my chops.

I actually strained my entire face back when I first started.

Take a few days of playing and then set a less strenuous practice schedule.
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[SaxoTrump]

Sometimes I have a suspicion that it's something like that but I can tell you why I'm not confident that the reason is in overplaying.
Before the 'lips collapsed week', the last day of my 'normal playing' I may play a little longer or a little more higher or do some things I don't typically do. For instance, I can do some new exercises I don't typically play.

However as far as I always remember I don't do anything drastically different or something particularly strenuous or play substantially longer. That is there is nothing to remember as: "Oh, I know what I've surely done to wear my chops down! That's the reason".

I can't say that I "play too long without taking breaks". I never play without breaks. I always use this formula in my everyday sessions:
- Warm-up for 15 minutes (long tones, slurs, some finger exc's)
- 10 minutes break
- 15 min play segment
- 10 min break
- etc.

[SaxoTrump]

Sometimes I get a feeling that these "collapses" are somehow associated with my mental state.
I get caught up in certain things from time to time (not necessarily music) and when that happens I mentally wear out myself while being in that state of fixation. When I get out of that cycle I feel relief but at the same time it brings with itself a sensation of emptiness.
Maybe while it doesn't effect my overall physical condition it may somehow affect trumpet playing capabilities?

[Robert P]

[Seymor B Fudd]

[SaxoTrump]

Interesting thoughts, Seymor - thanks.

[Andy Del]

[SaxoTrump]

Since I'm now in a "post-collapse" state I can recall and see that it's not only the lips collapse itself that bothers me.
I now can reconstruct the usual scenario of this unfortunate period and it actually goes like this:

- Some 1-2-3 months of "happy trumpet playing";
- Sudden "lips collapse" - unable to to vibrate and control lips for a week - "cotton wool" lips;
- Gradual "recovery" over next month or so. In this "post collapse" period I can achieve approximately from 50% to 80% of my normal playing capacity but it's somewhat unstable hence this percentage range;

Please note that while I identified this post-collapse 1 month as a "recovery" period I don't know what this recovery is from. That is I never can say that I did anything obviously destructive to my physical condition. I don't experience any physical overloads, I don't drink alcohol and so on.

Once again, the only thing I can think of is that I somethimes experience some mental obsessions that can last for a month and in the end when I'm through I experience some mental deterioration in the form of depression and devastation. I perhaps exaggerate my condition. It's nothig that needs medical attention. It's just that I feel down.
Again, it doesn't affect my overall physical condition: I gave you an example with push-ups I do every morning and it goes without change for the said period.
Maybe it can affect my trumpet playing abilities. I can't find any other explanation.

[SaxoTrump]

I have one more question so please someone address it.

Here locally there is a term that can be translated into English as "having overplayed one's lips". I only once heard it in person from a professional player who serviced my trumpet.
From his warning "never overplay your lips" I remember that he was talking of some severe but not fatal condition that can make one unable to play well for some time. I haven't asked him then how bad it could be.

Since trumpet playing is a universal thing I suppose "to overplay one's lips" must be a familiar term (even if not exactly in this wording) to any trumpet player regardless of their nationality.

So my question is: how bad can be "overplaying one's lips" ?
Can it disable a trumpet player for a month, for instance?
I don't mean complete inability to play but reducing the playing abilities to a significantly lower level?

One important thing: I assume no damage in the form od torn lips or anything like that. No, visually normal lips, no swelling, no tears and lips feeling as they should unless it comes to trumpet playing where they display no efficiency and strength.