Flugel on a budget

[Padmavani]

Hi, I've just arrived here, so excuse me if you think this should be in the flugels forum rather than this one (feel free to move this if necessary).

I'm looking for advice on a budget flugelhorn. I live in England, so I'm mostly limited to the instruments that are widely available here and in mainland Europe. Due to having a mutant right hand and some missing muscles, I'm going to be playing left handed (so pretty much all the rotary valve instruments aren't an option, as they're built to assume RH playing).

I can afford about £200, and that needs to include some kind of effective "practice mute" because of where I live (so that's £50-£60 already!).

There are the vast array of dodgy Indian instruments on eBay that I've been advised to ignore, so it's down to either a second hand metal instrument, or one of the new plastic ones - over here the ones I can get easily are Tromba and PlayLite (the latter is such a new model, I haven't been able to find any reviews of it that aren't from the makers). Both the plastic models come in at around £150.

There are obvious advantages for me in getting a plastic instrument - the main one being much less weight for my RH to support. But of course a plastic instrument will have little resale value, and a metal one will (probably) sound better. The second hand metal ones around that I could potentially afford are Jupiter, Thomann, and maybe a Besson if I'm lucky.

So... does anyone have personal experience of the plastic instruments?

Also, what would you recommend as a good mouthpiece size for a noob? I did try to learn flugelhorn back in my 20s (I'm 55 now!) so I'm not coming at it entirely new. I know mouthpiece makes a huge difference to ease of play - I'm primarily interested in learning to play jazz, but also for my own pleasure I'd like to play Bach. I don't really understand all the different makers' mouthpiece range codes!

Oh, and while I'm asking stuff - anyone out there who plays LH and could give useful advice on hand position to avoid RSI and suchlike would be welcome. My LH is a normal size, at least.

[GordonH]

I live in the UK and recently changed flugel. I sold my old Imperial for about £180 and that seems to be the going rate for them. Some people don't like them but I found mine played pretty well in tune. Failing that you could look for a Chinese instrument. Thomann sell one in that sort of price Range as do Vincent Bach International under the "Elkhart" brand. Second hand they are cheaper of course. We don't get so many American instruments over here and the older French ones tend to command quite high prices.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[GordonH]

And as far as mouthpieces are concerned I am going to be very boring and say to try a Wick 4F or 4FL. If you buy an instrument there is likely to be something in the case that might be useable. Different flugels have different fittings though so you need to wait and see what you have.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[Robert P]

Do you have access to Ebay? I've had two inexpensive Chinese flugels and they were both fine. They're sold under different names, they're ones that are around $285 or thereabout.

The issue you might run into is if you have to play with your left hand, does your right hand have enough functionality to work the third valve trigger?
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C

Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo

Chinese Flugel

[B. Scriver]

Get an FD mouthpiece from GR. This is a trumpet/flugel Hybrid Mouthpiece.
I use mine if I have to travel and can not take a flugel. It makes your trumpet sound so flugel - like that no one really notices that I am playing trumpet. Bergeron uses it when he wants to "sound like Chet."
http://grmouthpieces.com/mouthpieces.html
Talk to Will at Prozone Music as they may have some in stock.

Brian Scriver
www.grmouthpieces.com

[trickg]

I don't get this - once again we have a thread asking for an almost impossible task of wanting to get a horn, but not really having the budget to get it done - you won't find anything new in that price range that isn't junk, and very little used in that price range that isn't junk.

I have an ACB Doubler - it is one of the least expensive (yet usable) flugel options out there, and those are now just north of $500 US, or roughly £375.

Brian, if he's only got 200£ for a budget, he's probably not going to be able to pick up a GR mouthpiece for 150£.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[Richard III]

Interesting observation. Ebay UK has six flugelhorns that I counted. Ebay US has.........hundreds? Not sure because the 777 returns included mouthpieces and other stuff, but wow, what a difference.
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[TrumpetMD]

Good advice from trickg (Patrick). One option is to wait until you have enough money to purchase a better horn.

My "two cents" on the other aspects of the OP.

- The plastic tromba you are considering is affordable. I've not played a plastic flugel, but I've played plastic trumpets. They play and feel differently that brass horns, so you have to try one to see if you're going to like it. The plastic trumpets I tried were cheaply made (uneven seams, water keys breaking off). Finally, a plastic horn may not be all that well-received, if you plan to use it in a band.

- Regarding a mouthpiece, you might get lucky and like the one that comes with your horn. If not, it might be good to get an inexpensive flugelhorn mouthpiece (Wick, Bach, Yamaha) that is similar to your trumpet mouthpiece.

- Someone mentioned Vincent Bach International. I've not tried one, but I've heard good things about them. Anyone else have any experience with these horns?

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.

[cheiden]

I'd advise avoiding plastic if you can.

The Yamaha 2000-series student model typically plays very nicely. They aren't generally valued as a pro horn so they can usually be had for relatively little cash.

For a mouthpiece, the Yamaha horns take Yamaha mouthpieces, available in a variety of sizes, and they are cheap.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[LittleRusty]

[LittleRusty]

[TKSop]

[Jon Arnold]

I will second the vote for the GR FD mouthpiece. I have one and the intonation is spot on and works great if I want to tap into my inner Chet.

[LittleRusty]

[TKSop]

[Padmavani]

Thanks for the replies, folks (by the way, I am not a "he"...)

We must all work within our means, innit. I get the impression that I've innocently wandered into a forum where "budget" means an instrument under $1000 . As to why flugelhorn and not, say, trumpet? Because they sound beautiful and warm and dark, and the kind of music I'd like to be playing suits that more. I've been in love with the sound since my teens.

Yes, I'm more or less a beginner on this instrument. I played a little tuba and tenor horn (or alto if you're in the US?) in my teens, and I tried flugelhorn for a couple of months in my 20s but had to sell it because I was broke, and couldn't practise in the house because it made my landlord's baby cry.

I've opted for one of the plastic models because it's affordable and because it'll be easier for my RH to hold the instrument up. The LH playing should not be a problem, I've got past experience with that on a flugelhorn, the bell doesn't get in my way. Its only major downside is lack of a tuning slide mechanism, but for that money I'm unsurprised. If I actually get any good at this, I'll save up for a metal instrument, because if I'm playing with others, then tuning matters.

The instrument comes with a plastic mouthpiece, hence me asking for advice on choosing a metal one. I'm not so much looking for brand advice (most of them are outside my budget, even after I extended it!), but more for advice on how, as a beginner, to choose a suitable mouthpiece size - I've done as much research as I can, but it's still bewildering, most of the advice out there is for trumpet rather than flugelhorn.

It's probably worth me mentioning that I have goddamn huge lungs (my resting breaths/min are half what "normal" adults do), so using a mouthpiece that demands more air would not be an issue, if that was a good idea in other ways. I'm hearing conflicting advice about size - whether to go for a 3 or 5 or what? Deeper? Wider? Shallower? Narrower? I'll probably be able to stretch to a Denis Wick, they're about £40 here, and they have a fair range of sizes. What would you recommend?

As for shank, I sent an enquiry to the manufacturer (it's not Tromba, it's PlayLite, which is made by Gear4Music) at time of purchase to ask what type of mouthpiece shank they've built it for, so once I hear back from them I can go ahead and source a suitable mouthpiece. The instrument looks like this, in case you're curious.

[TrumpetMD]

[LittleRusty]

[bnsd]

I know she already purchased, but I would've suggested a used cornet. Smaller and shorter than a trumpet or a flugel. Should be easy enough with the left hand, and with the right mouthpiece, can sound plenty mellow and dark, while not restricting your options too much... brass band, combo jazz, big band section work, cornet etudes, etc.

It's what I would've suggested if I got here in time. Plastic horns are a toy... no way around that (yet anyway)

[TrumpetMD]