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Seeing music on a cornet lyre


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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject: Seeing music on a cornet lyre Reply with quote

Hi

I believe I may have touched on this subject indirectly around remembrance day, but maybe not directly. Anyway, I thought that I'd raise it again directly.

Somebody had the idea of using cornet lyres for carolling this year, since the New Christmas Praise Salvation Army carol book is march card sized. The idea was quickly abandoned owing to a general difficulty in reading the music from the lyre distance.

I'm almost 44 and have distance glasses only. They do also help close up, but I'm probably at the age where I'm starting to need a separate prescription for reading (when I had my eyes tested in June, my optician said that she could give me a separate slightly stronger prescription for reading, but she didn't think that there was any real need yet, so I didn't bother).

Anyway, although I can see music at lyre distance, it is not in focus, and rather in front of the bell as it ends up on the lyre, the music would need to be behind the bell for me to see it clearly.

It wasn't just me, others in the cornet section found the same. I am wondering how others over forty are dealing with this situation.

Many thanks

Lou
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purchase a set of reading glasses from your local supermarket or pharmacy. Not sure our terms will match yours.

We often refer to them as “dean Odell” glasses after one brand sold. They often are half height so you can look over them when not reading.

They also are fairly cheap.
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Anthony Miller
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use 3.5 reading glasses to read from the Cornet lyre. I have them on a glasses cord around my neck. When we move on after a couple of carols I use my normal specs to see for walking which go in my pocket when I’m playing. It’s a bit of a faff but works ok. Head-torches, sub-zero temps and specs make for an interesting playing experience to say the least!
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
Purchase a set of reading glasses from your local supermarket or pharmacy. Not sure our terms will match yours.

We often refer to them as “dean Odell” glasses after one brand sold. They often are half height so you can look over them when not reading.

They also are fairly cheap.


Hi LittleRusty

Thanks very much. I have astigmatism, so I don't think that over the counter reading glasses would be ideal, although they may work. Luckily I didn't have to use a lyre this year, but will have to talk to my optician about it if we go down this route on a future occasion.

Thanks again

Take care

Lou
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anthony Miller wrote:
I use 3.5 reading glasses to read from the Cornet lyre. I have them on a glasses cord around my neck. When we move on after a couple of carols I use my normal specs to see for walking which go in my pocket when I’m playing. It’s a bit of a faff but works ok. Head-torches, sub-zero temps and specs make for an interesting playing experience to say the least!


Hi Anthony Miller

Thanks very much. Are you saying that you use different strength glasses than for say reading a book? I don't tend to read particularly close anyhow owing to having convergence insufficiency, so I'm not sure what most people would consider to be reading distance.

It was -5 degrees celsius when I left home this morning, but had probably warmed up a bit by the time we started playing. I used a music stand. It went rather well I think, apart from my feet lol. I don't seem to have any black footwear that is big enough to allow for either two pairs of socks or thick socks, and almost twelve hours after finishing, I still have sore stinging feet. I could hardly walk after two hours of standing up playing. Something to sort before playing outside again on Tuesday I reckon.

Yes, it does sound like an interesting playing experience. Luckily you aren't having to march using a lyre.

Thanks again.

Take care

Lou
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Last edited by Louise Finch on Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prefer using those clip-on bell lyres - that little bit of extra distance makes it much more comfortable for me
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:
Prefer using those clip-on bell lyres - that little bit of extra distance makes it much more comfortable for me


Hi TKSop

Thanks very much, I've never thought of using one of these. Probably would be just enough extra distance. Good suggestion, thanks.

Take care

Lou
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Richard A
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Seeing music on a cornet lyre Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
I am wondering how others over forty are dealing with this situation.

Many thanks

Lou


I take my glasses off when I play with a marching lyre. I'm 65 and have used bifocals for many years, but neither portion of the lens works for reading music off a lyre. I have a separate pair of glasses for reading from a music stand.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: Seeing music on a cornet lyre Reply with quote

Richard A wrote:

I take my glasses off when I play with a marching lyre. I'm 65 and have used bifocals for many years, but neither portion of the lens works for reading music off a lyre. I have a separate pair of glasses for reading from a music stand.


Hi Richard A

Thanks very much. I presume therefore that you are near-sighted like my husband, who can see very well at lyre distance but has varifocals as his usual glasses and separate music reading glasses.

I'm long sighted, so if I take my glasses off, it makes it even worse.

I suppose the answer to this is very much like the answer to reading music on a music stand. Calculate the required distance and if you need glasses to see at this distance, wear whatever prescription allows you to see clearly at this distance.

For players who have separate reading and music glasses, do you find that your reading pair works at lyre distance, or is lyre distance even closer than normal reading distance?

Many thanks

Lou
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Richard A
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:28 am    Post subject: Re: Seeing music on a cornet lyre Reply with quote

[quote="Louise Finch"]
Richard A wrote:


I suppose the answer to this is very much like the answer to reading music on a music stand. Calculate the required distance and if you need glasses to see at this distance, wear whatever prescription allows you to see clearly at this distance.

Many thanks

Lou


I think you're on the right track.

Good luck!
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:46 am    Post subject: Re: Seeing music on a cornet lyre Reply with quote

[quote="Richard A"]
Louise Finch wrote:
Richard A wrote:


I suppose the answer to this is very much like the answer to reading music on a music stand. Calculate the required distance and if you need glasses to see at this distance, wear whatever prescription allows you to see clearly at this distance.

Many thanks

Lou


I think you're on the right track.

Good luck!


Hi Richard A

Thanks very much.

Take care

Lou
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pinstriper
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Lou,

The issue as you go up in magnification is the depth of field (the range where things are still in focus) becomes very shallow and easy to miss just by a bit.

You will absolutely want to bring your instrument and music with you to the optometrist.

You may also just try the drug store reading glasses and see if you get lucky. Again, bring the instrument and music, try different power glasses and see if something clicks. Here in the US we have "Dollar Stores" where everythng is priced $1, including cheap reading glasses. Keep in mind both lenses will be the same power so if your eyes need different strength it either won't work, or you'll end up reading monovision - one eye in focus.

The glasses will not be suitable for pretty much anything else, including pesky things like "where's my cup mute ?"

If you think the 40's are fun, wait until you hit 50 !
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ghelbig
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: Seeing music on a cornet lyre Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
For players who have separate reading and music glasses, do you find that your reading pair works at lyre distance, or is lyre distance even closer than normal reading distance?

My music glasses work at the distance I specified to my optometrist.

I found an optometrist that could understand my requirements for "music glasses". That wasn't very hard; I actually found a couple that could.

I then got "computer glasses" cut with my "music glasses" prescription. Computer glasses have a wider field of vision than normal progressive lenses.

They really made a difference.

To answer your question: Typical reading distance is about 60cm. Music on a stand (for me) is about 100cm. My "lyre distance" is about 30cm; my music glasses do not work at that distance, none of my glasses do.

Take your own measurements and bring them to your optometrist.

Gary.

PS: The age when presbyopia (the need for multi-focal glasses) sets in is typically "40".
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinstriper wrote:
Hey Lou,

Hi pinstriper

Thanks very much.

The issue as you go up in magnification is the depth of field (the range where things are still in focus) becomes very shallow and easy to miss just by a bit.

I understand, thanks.

You will absolutely want to bring your instrument and music with you to the optometrist.

You may also just try the drug store reading glasses and see if you get lucky. Again, bring the instrument and music, try different power glasses and see if something clicks. Here in the US we have "Dollar Stores" where everythng is priced $1, including cheap reading glasses. Keep in mind both lenses will be the same power so if your eyes need different strength it either won't work, or you'll end up reading monovision - one eye in focus.

I again understand, and we have pound shops which also sell cheap reading glasses. Since I wear distance glasses for astigmatism, I don't think this option would work, but thanks very much for suggesting it.

The glasses will not be suitable for pretty much anything else, including pesky things like "where's my cup mute ?"

I can see a music stand fine with my distance glasses, it is just the lyre that is difficult. Luckily I've managed to avoid the lyre for carol playing this year. I think that I will talk to my optician next time this becomes an issue.

If you think the 40's are fun, wait until you hit 50 !

I can't wait lol.

Best wishes

Lou

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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Seeing music on a cornet lyre Reply with quote

ghelbig wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
For players who have separate reading and music glasses, do you find that your reading pair works at lyre distance, or is lyre distance even closer than normal reading distance?

My music glasses work at the distance I specified to my optometrist.

Hi Gary

Thanks very much.


I found an optometrist that could understand my requirements for "music glasses". That wasn't very hard; I actually found a couple that could.

I don't suppose it is that difficult, as a lot of opticians deal with musicians.
I haven't had to deal with this issue yet, as like you I read music at a distance of around one metre, and I currently find that my distance glasses work fine at this distance.


I then got "computer glasses" cut with my "music glasses" prescription. Computer glasses have a wider field of vision than normal progressive lenses.

They really made a difference.

I'm pleased to hear that your computer glasses have really made a difference.

To answer your question: Typical reading distance is about 60cm. Music on a stand (for me) is about 100cm. My "lyre distance" is about 30cm; my music glasses do not work at that distance, none of my glasses do.

Thanks very much. My thoughts were that typical reading distance would probably be more than lyre distance.

Take your own measurements and bring them to your optometrist.

Sounds a good idea.

Gary.

PS: The age when presbyopia (the need for multi-focal glasses) sets in is typically "40".

At almost 44, I reckon I'm just hanging in in this regard.

Thanks very much again.

Take care

Lou

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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They pretty well said it above, go to an optometrist and get computer glasses, which are designed to focus at a longer distance than reading glasses, or for playing with a lyre on cornet, a closer focus point. You have to be specific when dealing with the optometrist - showing hm the instrument and distance works well.

Our eyes change as we age, with lenses becoming more rigid so they can't adjust quickly (or at all). Eventually some find their original prescription changes to the opposite - no longer needing distance assistance, but close up instead... it's fun to get old! (must examine that statement a bit closer)

I had an astigmatism - that incurable distortion of the eyeball. A naturopath I was seeing for allergies confiscated my glasses and gave me some eye exercises to do and I didn't need reading glasses from them until 2 years ago - a total of almost 30 years! (I continue to o the exercises once in a blue moon if I feel visually tired, but looking at the conductor once in a while is a good substitute!)

Or, try playing on a trumpet... that'll fix the focus up! Or memorise the carols.

cheers

Andy
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a long, straight lyre (for a tuba, I believe, and custom bent it to fit the cornet to move the book farther from my face. A little odd looking, but it worked pretty well. A stand is better if you're not moving around, though.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Del wrote:
They pretty well said it above, go to an optometrist and get computer glasses, which are designed to focus at a longer distance than reading glasses,

Hi Andy Del

Thanks very much, but I don't think that there is any need for computer or music glasses, as I already wear my distance glasses for these tasks ( I wear them full-time to correct long-sighted astigmatism) and don't yet need an intermediate addition.


or for playing with a lyre on cornet, a closer focus point.

This is where the problem is lying. With my distance glasses, which help a little close up, my near focus point is around 15 inches. This does result in consciously holding my phone, small print etc. a little further away than I naturally probably would, but has not yet become enough of a problem that my optician felt when I last had my eyes tested only in June, that I needed separate reading glasses (especially since she knows that I wouldn't like the idea of them blurring my distance vision, and hence would prefer to wait until the difference was sufficient for progressives etc., which would then potentially cause problems with reading music, which I don't have with my current single vision distance glasses.) I have a feeling that my near point of focus may have moved slightly further out since June, possibly because of my age, but my plan has been to wait until I feel that it is becoming a regular problem before doing anything about it.

Regarding the cornet lyre, I've never used one, and only discovered the difficulties when I tried the one that was in the case when I bought my cornet used. Since I wasn't the only one that found this issue, we abandoned the idea, so problem averted for now, but who knows if/when this may come up again, hence I wondered how others deal with this.


You have to be specific when dealing with the optometrist - showing hm the instrument and distance works well.

Thanks very much.

Our eyes change as we age, with lenses becoming more rigid so they can't adjust quickly (or at all). Eventually some find their original prescription changes to the opposite - no longer needing distance assistance, but close up instead... it's fun to get old! (must examine that statement a bit closer)

Thanks very much.

I had an astigmatism - that incurable distortion of the eyeball. A naturopath I was seeing for allergies confiscated my glasses and gave me some eye exercises to do and I didn't need reading glasses from them until 2 years ago - a total of almost 30 years! (I continue to o the exercises once in a blue moon if I feel visually tired, but looking at the conductor once in a while is a good substitute!)

I understand, thanks. I also have convergence insufficiency and have done many eye exercises for this, so I think that I'll give this kind of idea a miss, but thanks very much.

Or, try playing on a trumpet... that'll fix the focus up! Or memorise the carols.

I do play the trumpet. I don't believe that trumpets generally have lyre holders, although come to think of it, my Boosey and Oxford does. I'd however not want to play it in a brass band.

There are well over a hundred carols. Obviously we don't play all of them, but a fair number to make this idea impractical.

cheers

Andy

Take care

Lou

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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinstriper wrote:
Keep in mind both lenses will be the same power so if your eyes need different strength it either won't work, or you'll end up reading monovision - one eye in focus.

Pardon for the slight diversion from Lou's OP.

One can always purchase two pair and swap the lenses if one needs different magnification for each eye.
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Anthony Miller
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I do use different strength than for reading a book. I took my Cornet and lyre into Dunelm and found which strength reading glasses I needed.
3.5 strength is just right for lyre reading but nothing else.

Louise Finch wrote:


Are you saying that you use different strength glasses than for say reading a book?
................

Lou
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