Lightheadedness while playing high.

[Iplaythetrumpet]

Firstly, I should probably mention that I have an abnormal, and uncanny ability to get dizzy and lightheaded, mainly when standing up. It is probably to do with how quickly I do it, but that's that.

The point is, when trying to go high, it seems like the exact same thing is happening, and I seem to be more prone to this lightheadedness (once even ending in brief fainting) than most people (whether on the trumpet or not).

Although I say this, I think that some part of it when playing the trumpet is due to sloppy technique, like trying to force all the air out, and it therefore encountering a lot of resistance. So here are my questions for you today:

1. Do you think I am approaching playing high notes wrong, and is it better to 'let the air come out' rather than force as much out as possible?

2. Do you know of any trumpet playing excercises that discourage these bad habits, and ensure good air flow and control?

3. In the event of these headaches, do you know of any techniques to control them? (In the past, I've heard trying to breath out while holding your nose, much like popping your ears at high altitudes works)

Thanks! On a side note, while writing this post, a random thought came to me that I think someone here may know. Is there any reason or interesting backstory about why Dizzy Gillespie is called that? I want there to be one so much!

Sorry if I've waffled on- nothing adverse to the usual!
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A wannabe trumpet player-I'll get there some day..

[Scott42486]

First, if you haven't already, you really should see a doctor about that first part. A good doctor. Not some quack "doc in a box."
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[Iplaythetrumpet]

[trumpet.trader]

I’m sure you’re going to get lots of suggestions and from lots of people. Advice; take all of them including mine, with a grain of salt.

For me I try to never use more than maybe 70-75% of my wind power and volume when playing trumpet. Seriously trumpet is a loud instrument and playing to the max usually ends up with distorted sound, and fatigue. We WILL be heard, so relax.

I try to be a “less is more” player with regards to body and chop tension, and relaxing with the air I put out. The more I relax and do the opposite of what my brain tells me I should be doing, the better results I have. It’s hard to explain but when my chops look like there is almost no tension and very little movement are the times I sound the best. Same with air. I don’t breath any deeper than I do during a normal conversation. This way I don’t overblow because there isn’t enough air to it.

And the light headed and dizzy/fainting spells you have are abnormal. Might want to see a doctor about that.

[Iplaythetrumpet]

Thanks- very useful advice. I think like you said, I may just be trying too hard, and it is very interesting that you said you don't breath more than in normal conversations- I normally try to fill my lungs up with as much air as possible.
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A wannabe trumpet player-I'll get there some day..

[CJceltics33]

Compression socks may help. It'll give you more blood flow to your head.

[trumpet.trader]

[INTJ]

Dr. Dave Harrison of Wedge MP fame is an MD. IIRC, he told me that blacking out when playing high notes is cause by too much air pressure in the chest cavity restricting return blood flow to the heart. When that sequence starts we have about six seconds before blackout, and the best way to fix it is by taking a breath and relieving the pressure.

As we develop our air power we have to learn to use it properly. I find that bending my head down when playing high is a big no. I strive to keep my head up, bend my legs, lean back, and squeeze my butt cheeks. The goal is to provide a straight path for the air--at least that is my visualization. Whether that reflects physical reality or not I don't know, but the method helps greatly to prevent blacking out, of which dizziness is a normal precursor.

While my technique helps with keeping excessive air pressure from causing dizziness and blacking out, it is hiding another issue. Too much tension in the chops as can happen when I am a little nervous during a gig. The sequence is I set my chops more rolled in than I normally do, which requires more air pressure than I normally need, which mandates my posture is perfect or I will risk blacking out.

The best solution for me is good posture and relaxed chops.
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[cheiden]

Practice your range in the controlled space of the practice room. Learn where your limits are and what those limits feel like. When you're in an ensemble situation do your level best never to exceed that feeling.
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[trmptgvl]

I think there may be a few things going on for you, but google valsalva maneuver and see if you think it applies.

[danny45635]

I was having that same problem when I was re-approaching how to play the trumpet over this first semester of college. The light headedness, headaches etc. it’s caused from a lack of air to the brain, as you probably know. I had this problem particularly bad when I was learning how to breath properly and take in the proper amount of air. For me at least, this was caused by my throat cutting off, and not letting enough oxygen to get to my brain.

To work on this, my professor had me work on harmonic series exercises, without forcing anything, and not closing off my throat. He had me start on a second line G, but with 1&3, and purposely hit all the harmonics up to the G on top of the staff, and go between them without closing my throat, and gradually moving it up a half step at it got more comfortable. Also, when you do this, try to get every note to “pop” into place, by using a slight crescendo as you ascend, and use your diaphragm a little more.

I had to use my diaphragm a bit more to not force notes with my chops, and keep the air pressure going. My professor told me my throat was cutting off cause I was backing off on the air as I ascended, not necessarily cause I needed more air (cause too much can be bad of course), or needed to blow louder.

Hopefully this post helps and makes sense! If I’m wrong with anything, someone please correct me.

Thanks,
Danny
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[razeontherock]

Drinking lots of water can help with the general light headedness thing. Seriously, especially first thing in the morning, if you struggle with that when first getting up.

While playing upstairs, it is definitely aggravated by achieving more air pressure than needed, but there is also a physical conditioning aspect to this, as well as simply time spent practicing in the upper register. You're not going to get everything right at first, hence the need to practice! The biggest risk is falling over and hurting your horn or your head, so practice the movement of dropping to one knee and placing the horn gently on the ground, out of harm's way.

Expanding the upper register requires developing the ability to create more air pressure, to control it, and to survive the experience over extended periods of time. Physical fitness is demanding like a fighter pilot.

[TrpPro]

For me, getting the air to flow freely and the lips to vibrate freely cleared up this problem. Not the easiest thing to do if the lips aren't placed right.

[JVL]

hello
maybe cristals in ears, or cervical arthrosis cause this, for the medical part.

for trumpet playing, excessive breathing tension, or lack of aperture control.

drink enough water but not in excess, especially in winter, otherwise your blood is too much diluated, not to talk about extreme as hyponatremia

best

[trumpet.trader]

I’ve found there’s two schools of thought with regard to breathing.

You’ve got one school that is always talking about air power, tanking up, lung power like the Maynard style of playing. Bending knees, raising the horn to take in huge gulps of air, bending the back.

You see this in a few pro players (less since the 70s and 80s) always prevalent in DCI and lead players who talk of “burying the band” and often play very loud, brash, and uncontrolled.

Then you see the efficient players who barely move when they play. Always look relaxed, don’t bother with excess body movements or huge grandious gulps of air or flamboyance. These players have equal power in sound, but more control, finesse, style and use of dynamics.

It took me a long time to realize Maynard was a showman and the crazy big breaths, knees bent, pelvic thrusts (weird) was all part of a show to create the magic. But I know lots of players that can do everything MF ever did, play with a better sound, and more versatility and never use any of his theatrics to achieve results.

I think there has been an entire business and generations of trumpet teaching trying to explain what Maynard did and teach others. And and awful lot of it is nonsense in my experience. Especially when so many ohpther aspects of musicianship to make one a working professional trumpet player get overlooked.

[INTJ]

[CalletJazz]

Could be a drop in blood pressure. I had those often in combination with anxiety attacks and caused me to black out sometimes.

Luckily, I worked things out! Never happens anymore...

[CalletJazz]

Blood Pressure Changes Can Cause Anxiety

It's also possible for blood pressure to cause anxiety, not the other way around. Both low blood pressure and high blood pressure can cause changes in your heartbeat, dizziness and lightheadedness, and more. These symptoms can themselves create anxiety or trigger panic attacks, and that in turn is going to vastly increase your anxiety. Not everyone suffers from high blood pressure from anxiety. Some people experience anxiety from blood pressure.

[trumpet.trader]

[razeontherock]

Following the above, if drinking a substantial amount of water first thing in the morning helps with the dizziness, it is directly related to blood pressure.