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Was Clarke first?


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EBjazz
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject: Was Clarke first? Reply with quote

Hi;
Was Clarke the first great American born cornet virtuoso?

Also, please name any students of Clarke.

Thanks!!~

Eb
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In his autobiography, Clarke mentioned hearing Walter B. Rogers perform and being absolutely amazed by his skill, ability and especially the apparent ease with which he played. Rogers was only 2 years older than Clarke, but more advanced at the time they met. Later they played in the same band and Clarke watched Rogers closely to try and figure out how he played so well and with such ease.
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Also, please name any students of Clarke.


Fay Hanson - longtime faculty member at Weber State University.

Sidney Mear - longtime professor at Eastman and principal trumpet of the Rochester Philharmonic.

Bill Adam - Not sure for how long, but he did study with Clarke.

Walt Laursen - I don't recall all the details, but believe he was principal trumpet of the San Francisco Opera, and also in one of the Los Angeles area orchestras. He was one of Malcolm McNab's teachers.


Last edited by Dayton on Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JoseLindE4
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't Ernest Williams a Clarke student?
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimmy Maxwell.

Mike
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EricV
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Claude Gordon was probably his most well known student from what i have read. I believe Pappy Mitchell and Raphael Mendez took from Clarke for a period of time
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Irving
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clarke was a fine cornet player, but some of his contemporaries were just as fine, if not better. Walter B. Rogers was amazing. Levy,and Kryl were incredible as well. There were a lot of them back in the day. I have recordings of these guys, and their technical virtuosity hasn't been equaled in modern times. The Cornet Compendium is online,and it is like an encyclopedia of cornetists. It is true that many were born in Europe, but I don't see why that would matter. There were great players all over the globe back then as well as today.
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd have mentiones Kryl and Levy but I don't believe either was US born, if that makes a difference to the OP.
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trpt.hick
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mendez had two lessons with Clarke, one a few months after his first embouchure accident (swinging door in pit orchestra in Detroit) and one about a year later after learning to play pedal tones for months from his father in Mexico. Mendez was unable to produce a sound during the first lesson, but played amazingly well during the second lesson. Clarke was so impressed that he wrote a letter to his friend Edwin Franco Goldman, stating "Dearest Ed, Have you heard the young Mexican trumpeter Rafael Mendez? What tone, what velocity. One hundred years from now, they will have forgotten about us, but they will always remember the name Rafael Mendez."

As for Kryl and Levy, they did not study with Clarke. Kryl was born in Bohemia, and Levy was born in England. Clarke does mention in his autobiography that when he was a boy he heard Levy perform during his prime, and this inspired him to become a cornet soloist.

Mendez later settled in Los Angeles, and helped Louis Maggio (a close friend who played second trumpet to Mendez in the pit orchestra in Detroit) after Maggio had his embouchure accident (slipping on the ice while crossing a street in Minneapolis, hitting his mouth on a trolley track switch button). Mendez taught him the pedal routines his father gave him, and Maggio improved greatly. Maggio decided to settle in Los Angeles, where he taught many of the top trumpet players in town, such as Claude Gordon, Uan Rasey, Carlton McBeth, and Roger Spaulding. So, Mendez is the true father of the pedal tone systems used today.

Maggio never wrote a method book, although Carlton McBeth put together many of Maggio's exercises into a book titled "The Original Louis Maggio System for Brass." McBeth does not mention Mendez's influence on the Maggio method, and he also got the date of Maggio's embouchure accident off by 20 years. . . it was 1937, not 1917. Maggio and Mendez were close friends for life, and Rafael's sons Robert and Ralph took lessons with Maggio when their father was away for months on tour.

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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the post, Dave. Interesting and thanks for your time, too.
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EBjazz
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the great info!

Eb
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Heim
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The late Leonard B. Smith and James B. Underwood had just as much technique as Clarke and maybe more.

Find them, Underwood especially will blow your mind since he is relatively unknown to most.

I believe that Mendez went to Gustav Heim to seek help for his lip injury. Perhaps Mr. Hickman can confirm this? I knew someone who told me that he and his friend "Mex" had gone to Heim for lessons.
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trpt.hick
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe. After the accident, Mendez asked his friend Maggio (who was known in Detroit as one of the best teachers) to help him play again, but Maggio was unable to help. So, Mendez went to NYC for a lesson with Schlossberg, but same answer. He may have taken a lesson from Heim since Heim was a leading teacher in NYC, but there is no evidence of this. He then went to Boston for a lesson with Walter Smith. . . same answer. On to St. Louis for a lesson with Gustat, but again no help. His last stop was in Long Beach with Clarke. Unfortunately, there was so much scar tissue that no one was able to help Mendez produce a sound.

When Mendez left Mexico for the U.S.at the age of 19, his father Maximino was against his leaving, saying that Rafael was too young. Although Maximino had the money to help Rafael go to the States, he did not offer any support, so Rafael asked a wealthy landowner in his village for a loan, which was given. Of course, Maximino was Rafael's first teacher because Maximino taught all of his 15 children to play instruments in the family orchestra. Although Maximino could play all of the instruments, mandolin was his main instrument.

After not being able to play, and not finding a teacher who could help, it was very difficult for Mendez to swallow his pride and ask his father if he could return home for lessons. Besides, Rafael was now making a good living as a trumpet player in Detroit, and he had recently been married. Taking a total of nine months to learn pedals from his father was emotionally painful, but he returned to the U.S. an even better player than before.
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, thank you Mr. Hickman for all that information. I had known of his injury of course, but I never knew how much of an ordeal it actually was for him to return.

Is there an autobiography of Mendez published somewhere? I've read them on a number of other famous (and infamous) musicians, but not him. He was probably one of the first trumpet players I heard as a small child, because my father (still) owns a large number of his recordings.

Very inspirational, so many give up when faced with even minor chop problems, then there are those that push on regardless and end up like Herseth and Mendez, at the top of their game.
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homecookin
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The book..a biography of Rafael Mendez...

Magnificent Mendez
By Jane Hickman
Published by Summit publications.

The book contains a wealth of information about Rafael Mendez,
his life and career. A lot of what Dr. Hickman related in his post
is contained in the book.
Although I don't remember the story about Maggio, which I found
very interesting, being told in the book.
It has been many years since I have read the book.
I should probably find it, dust it off, and read it again.
But it does tell the story about how Mendez went to
all the famous teachers in the United States and could
not get any help, and went back to his father for help.
It is a very interesting book, and a great read.
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

homecookin wrote:
The book..a biography of Rafael Mendez...

Magnificent Mendez
By Jane Hickman
Published by Summit publications.

The book contains a wealth of information about Rafael Mendez,
his life and career. A lot of what Dr. Hickman related in his post
is contained in the book.
Although I don't remember the story about Maggio, which I found
very interesting, being told in the book.
It has been many years since I have read the book.
I should probably find it, dust it off, and read it again.
But it does tell the story about how Mendez went to
all the famous teachers in the United States and could
not get any help, and went back to his father for help.
It is a very interesting book, and a great read.


Great, thank you very much.
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trpt.hick
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I purchased all of the remaining copies of the Magnificent Mendez book by Dr. Jane Hickman and Dr. Del Lyren. Hickman Music Editions is the only place they are available in new copies.
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trpt.hick wrote:
I purchased all of the remaining copies of the Magnificent Mendez book by Dr. Jane Hickman and Dr. Del Lyren. Hickman Music Editions is the only place they are available in new copies.
Thanks for mentioning Del...
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try to remember this book next fall, when TH is again flooded with students fearing permanent damage from marching ...
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Heim
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trpt.hick wrote:
Maybe. After the accident, Mendez asked his friend Maggio (who was known in Detroit as one of the best teachers) to help him play again, but Maggio was unable to help. So, Mendez went to NYC for a lesson with Schlossberg, but same answer. He may have taken a lesson from Heim since Heim was a leading teacher in NYC, but there is no evidence of this. He then went to Boston for a lesson with Walter Smith. . . same answer. On to St. Louis for a lesson with Gustat, but again no help. His last stop was in Long Beach with Clarke. Unfortunately, there was so much scar tissue that no one was able to help Mendez produce a sound.


Thaks Dave.

I thought that I posted this before but I don't see it. I meant Joe Gustat, not Gustav Heim. I mixed my post with my TH login
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