Switching between trumpet and cornet-advice for newer player

Bulgakov · Regular Member Joined: 03 Oct 2017 Posts: 61

I'm currently playing trumpet in a community orchestra, and I recently moved up to the intermediate brass band at the local brass academy. Moving up required switching to cornet--and so now I am learning on two instruments. I've been playing trumpet for about 2 years (but really less, since I had a 6 year break after a natural disaster here threw everything into chaos. I only started up again seriously last May). Point is, I'm pretty new to brass instruments.

I am also taking lessons from the brass academy, though I don't start those up again until February with a new teacher, and these will be the first real lessons on the cornet.

So, while I will be asking my teacher lots of questions when lessons restart in February, in the meantime, any thoughts, advice, comments etc. about possible pitfalls or things to bear in mind for the newer player switching between instruments would be most appreciated.

I have been doing some reading around this forum and also found some other useful links such as this one:

http://trumpetpla.net/2017/01/22/trumpet-vs-cornet/

but I'm keen to hear more.

GordonH · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:28 am Post subject:

I have to play both and the secret for me is playing on mouthpieces and instruments that keep the feel similar. By feel I mean rim size and overall resistance. If you put a Bach C cup cornet mouthpiece in most cornets they will feel much more restrictive than the equivalent in a trumpet.

The main difference when switching is articulation. I find it easier to articulate on Cornet so when I switch I can find the trumpet a bit "splattery" for a while.

How I have coped with this over the years is to compromise on both ends. I use slightly deeper and more V shaped trumpet mouthpieces and slightly more forgiving cornet mouthpieces. I know some people disagree with that approach, but it works for me.

As a relative beginner you might find less of a difference when switching. I have to swap mid performance so the ability to do it easily is quite important for me.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

GeorgeB · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:51 am Post subject:

I am just the opposite to GordonH.

I find it easier and better to use a deep cup with my Conn 5A cornet. I use the Bach 5C mostly on trumpet, although I'll use the B and A models on occasion. But I find the 5C cornet mp too shallow for a good sound so I use the 5A or the B.

But I do think it is wise to stick to the same rim size if you are going to be switching back and forth between trumpet and cornet.
_________________
GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet

zaferis · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:34 am Post subject:

Have, or build, a solid concept of the cornet sound (trumpet sound too). Listen, listen. listen.

Then as you pick up the cornet, keep it quiet. Spend a significant amount of time playing at softer dynamics and settle into the different tone and feel.
I play in a local brass band, many in the cornet section don't spend this kind of time on the instrument and it is noticeable - overblown, biting quality of sound.

Your mouthpiece selection will go a long way toward your desired tone. I prefer the same/similar rim but the cup depth and shape is quite different.
i.e. If you're playing in a Brass Band you'll probably go significantly deeper than you would otherwise.

Curry makes an excellent line of mouthpieces - and very consistent rims with a variety of depths/shapes: DC, VC, TC, BBC... And they won't set you back a ton of $$

As you get better on the cornet and learn the tone, going back and forth becomes pretty easy - you'll be surprized at how quickly your chops make the tansition. Use you're ears as your guide.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

Bulgakov · Regular Member Joined: 03 Oct 2017 Posts: 61

Christian K. Peters · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:59 pm Post subject: Switching between

Hello all,
I think the advice that has been given is all true. I think you have to make your decision what MP to choose, based on what part your are playing and your experience. I play solo cornet and have first row bandmates that are playing deep V's and can have some serious endurance issues. They are good/classically trained players who gig a lot about town, so I trust their judgement on what they can handle. For me, I play a deeper but not a V bowl cup. I have found that I can still have the cornet sound sound, but still last to the end. If i were playing 2nd or third parts, I would totally be into the V or deeper brass band cup. I play Warburtons and the MBC or XD cups would be more appropriate for the lower parts, IMHO. Otherwise I will stay on my D cup for cornet. I play almost daily, and perform in a dance band, quintet and do other keyed trumpet stuff in church settings.
_________________
Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

Bulgakov · Regular Member Joined: 03 Oct 2017 Posts: 61

roynj · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065

Just make sure you're playing both instruments every day, and try for similar rim sizes so that the transition doesn't feel too strange. The key will be to play both horns quite a bit. And as another poster had suggested, listen listen listen to good cornet players so that you can get a sound concept going. There are many great cornet playing example on Youtube.

Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187

I was playing both trumpet and cornet (in a BBB) a number of years ago. I did fine with a Bach 3C on the trumpet and a Bach 3 on the cornet (Olds Ambassador short model). The dedicated cornet players were playing Denis Wick pieces. So my take is to use about the same rim on both with a deeper cup on the cornet. I don't know about the Besson 7. There is F. Besson (France), English Besson, and American made stencil Bessons made by Kanstul and Blessing. GOK who made your mouthpiece and what the specs are.

Dieter Z · Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:29 am Post subject:

I mainly played cornet in a BBB setting for decades. Only play trumpet since a few years.

For me the switch is more mental and the way I approach my playing on either instrument.

My cornet approach is mainly very lyrical and soft tounge.
My trumpet playing is different.

Mouthpiece wise I play whatever gives me the sound I am looking for.

The best way to get into cornet playing BBB style is to go on YouTube and listen to some good players like David Daws and then try to imitate them.
_________________
B & H Sovereign 928
Conn 80A
F. Besson Brevette Kanstul made
B&S Challenger II 3137 rl
Buescher 400 - 225 (WWII)
Benge 90C
Eastman 540 D/Eb
ACB Fluegelhorn
Selmer Picc
ACB mouthpieces for most of my playing

Louise Finch · Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:34 am Post subject:

Andy Del · Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:33 am Post subject:

It is all well nad good to put time and effort into what mouoiece is going to work best, etc. etc., but there is only one way to be able to find a direction through playing both trumpet and cornet, and that is you must practice in both.

It's up to you if you do this daily, or switch every day, or week or whatever. But you need to put in time on both instruments and become used to playing them and their idiosyncrasies.

Cheers

Andy
_________________
so many horns, so few good notes...

Bulgakov · Regular Member Joined: 03 Oct 2017 Posts: 61

Corny Cornet · New Member Joined: 20 Dec 2017 Posts: 4

I agree practice both. As always it comes down to practice being the most important thing. If you want to play both practice both. The sound and style you want from each will be different. Each cornet and each trumpet will have its own intonation issues to deal with. And never forget cornets and trumpets are different instruments and must be treated differently.

Equipment wise use what gives you the sound you want from each. I'd go for a similar diameter mouthpiece but you will want different throat and depth to get the sound you want. For example I once used a Bach MP in a Bach trumpet and switched to a DW in a besson cornet. Each MP had a similar cup diameter but was othwise completely different, this enabled me to play trumpet in orchestra, cornet in brass bands and both in a wind band.
_________________
Loz

Bulgakov · Regular Member Joined: 03 Oct 2017 Posts: 61

Thank you all for the advice and comments. You got me curious, so I got out both mouthpieces, put them side by side and did some rough measuring since I could not find any specs online for the Besson.

The Bach specs I could find list it as 16.25mm for the diameter.

The Besson is approximately 17mm.

I noticed the Besson is significantly deeper and has what I assume what you are all referring to as a V cup. The opening at the base of the cup is also significantly larger. I can't measure it, but it is quite obvious even eyeballing it.

The outer rim sizes are identical, and they are both pretty comfortable for me.

GeorgeB · Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:46 am Post subject:

ButchA · Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:37 am Post subject:

Robert Rowe · Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:39 am Post subject:

blbaumgarn · Heavyweight Member Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 705

There are lots of good hints in this topic. I did this, albeit 50 years ago in college. Was given a school cornet when I made symphonic winds, They used 6 cornets and at times 2 trumpet parts. I agree that the cornet was much easier to articulate on. Bride of the Waves is easier mastered on a cornet than a trumpet. I played a 1C Bach on trumpet and was given a Schilke mouthpiece by my teacher for cornet. Don't ask me to remember designation numbers but he said that it paralleled what I played with trumpet. I love both instruments and their individual personalities. You sound like you have done some experimentation already. This is what learning is all about. I am sorry but trumpet players and cornetists, too all get tied up in the perfect combination of bell, lead pipe, mp, etc. You are the instrumentalist. You are responsible for the sound, and also the instrument. Its kind of like the advice Lauren Bacall gave Humphrey Bogart in the movies. "You just put your lips on it, and blow!"