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VintageFTW Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2016 Posts: 130 Location: Somewhere in the mountains of North Georgia
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: Opinions on upper - extreme upper register slurring? |
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What are your opinions on doing very complex slurring patterns starting at high C to double C and above? I have found that I am able to do these at decent volume with relative ease. Literally it just involves making up patterns in my head in a generally ascending direction. With these I don't have any sort of range break, other than the harmonic interval at double C. I do have to slightly alter my embouchure to get the fluidity required to do this though. Could this exercise feasibility help with control and accuracy? Should I try doing these with my normal embouchure set? What do you think? _________________ 1880's Thompson & Odell Boston
1880's L&H "Henry Gunckel" Sole Agent Cornet
1903 L&H "Improved Own Make"
Early 1900's Marceau Cornet *B&F Stencil
1922 Holton-Clarke Cornet
1954 Elkhart built by Buescher 37b
...And many more |
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deleted_user_fdb91a0 New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:53 am Post subject: |
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1) If it hurts, stop and do something else.
2) If it sounds bad, try to make it sound better.
3) If it doesn't start sounding better, stop and do something else.
Apply this process to everything in life. |
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INTJ Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1986 Location: Northern Idaho
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Great idea!! I do drills like that daily. Just make sure you never strain. _________________ Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel
Harrelson 5mm MP |
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Pops Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2002 Posts: 2039 Location: Dallas (Grand Prairie), Texas
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Use one embouchure for everything.
A lip setpoint of G on top of the staff should help. _________________ Clint 'Pops' McLaughlin
You can always Google me.
50 years Teaching. Teaching and writing trumpet books is ALL I do.
7,000 pages of free music. Trumpet Books, Skype Lessons: www.BbTrumpet.com |
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Trapshooter25 New Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2018 Posts: 5
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:33 am Post subject: |
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It has always helped me! |
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Lionel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016 Posts: 783
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on upper - extreme upper register slurring? |
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VintageFTW wrote: | What are your opinions on doing very complex slurring patterns starting at high C to double C and above? I have found that I am able to do these at decent volume with relative ease. Literally it just involves making up patterns in my head in a generally ascending direction. With these I don't have any sort of range break, other than the harmonic interval at double C. I do have to slightly alter my embouchure to get the fluidity required to do this though. Could this exercise feasibility help with control and accuracy? Should I try doing these with my normal embouchure set? What do you think? |
I'm not doubting you however if what you say is true? Your words won't garner much sympathy here. As your description, at least as indicated would seem to describe a gifted embouchure. And that perfecting it would likely remain just a matter of technique and time.
Unless of course you're using two distinctly different embouchure settings in order to bounce between low and high. Dual settings involves tricky matters. The usual preference being to either stick to just one. Or learn to "blend" them until they become the same.
As two distinctly different chop settings tends to reduce accuracy and limit your technique in various ways. My preference for this situation would be to learn to work the high note setting downwards. Holding onto the lower note embouchure only until it becomes obsolete. As the higher setting learns to adapt. Lots of Stevens System candidates had this priblem during their early days of learning that chop system.
I'm also told that Wayne Bergeron (one of the most musical lead players on the scene today initially had much trouble making his lower register even produce a tone at all. But obviously he stuck with it and has played beautifully for decades now.
Perseverance would seem to be the only critical matter for our O/P here. If what he says is true? He just needs to concentrate on his fundamentals. His upper register will take care of itself. Insome ways I almost see his post as a possible "brag-share". As opposed to a genuine request for help. I'm not accusing him of that however. Will give him benefit of the doubt. _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 832 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Ahhhh ... the seeds have been planted. _________________ Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana Resonance LT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on upper - extreme upper register slurring? |
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VintageFTW wrote: | What are your opinions on doing very complex slurring patterns starting at high C to double C and above? I have found that I am able to do these at decent volume with relative ease. Literally it just involves making up patterns in my head in a generally ascending direction. With these I don't have any sort of range break, other than the harmonic interval at double C. I do have to slightly alter my embouchure to get the fluidity required to do this though. Could this exercise feasibility help with control and accuracy? Should I try doing these with my normal embouchure set? What do you think? |
I think we will have to see a video of this to really know for sure... _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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ljazztrm Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | With these I don't have any sort of range break, other than the harmonic interval at double C. I do have to slightly alter my embouchure to get the fluidity required to do this though. Could this exercise feasibility help with control and accuracy? Should I try doing these with my normal embouchure set? What do you think? |
It all comes down to how it sounds in a musical context. I believe that we can make good, musical sounds with the trumpet and play musical lines from low F# to the G above double C. If an exercise is helping you, that's great, certainly continue it. But, now, try to start playing music up there as well. Do the embouchure shifts cause the musical lines to be interrupted? Go with what sounds the most musical. There are certain players who use shifts in their chops, but you wouldn't know it unless they told you.
Currently, I personally don't use any embouchure shifts, but I do need to have a pretty small diameter on my chops to play my full range with connection, volume, and endurance. The cup depth only matters for me volume-wise, it doesn't effect my range or endurance. With a small diameter mouthpiece and a free blowing trumpet, my chops are relaxed and I feel my core muscles are what are engaged as I play higher and louder. We're each unique in our physical makeup..facial, lip, dental structure..so while there are certain general principles that I believe are applicable to very efficient trumpet playing, within these principles, there will be individual variations for each player. All the best, Lex _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
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Rod Haney Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Try this.
Instead of slurring double tongue low c, middle c, hi c and then your double c and if you dont have to change anything and can skip octaves quickly and jump 2 octaves easily while maintaining the tongue you just need to practice more until you play like Alan Visoutti. Practice three octave double tonguing and when you get it down all your questions about hi range will probably be answered. |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions on upper - extreme upper register slurring? |
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VintageFTW wrote: | What are your opinions on doing very complex slurring patterns starting at high C to double C and above? I have found that I am able to do these at decent volume with relative ease. Literally it just involves making up patterns in my head in a generally ascending direction. With these I don't have any sort of range break, other than the harmonic interval at double C. I do have to slightly alter my embouchure to get the fluidity required to do this though. Could this exercise feasibility help with control and accuracy? Should I try doing these with my normal embouchure set? What do you think? |
I don't see this as a method for developing control or accuracy. By definition you're slurring through the pitches rather than nailing them. I think playing octave intervals (tonguing them) is a much better approach if your intent is to develop control and accuracy. If you employ this method and miss it's pretty obvious. The fact that you can slur through a pitch doesn't mean you can nail it. When you speak of control and accuracy I define that to mean nailing notes.
I also agree with those who say the ideal situation is to cover your range with one embouchure. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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