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novaj5
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Joined: 10 Dec 2012
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 Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:40 am Post subject: |
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Thank you steevo (and HaveTrumpetWillTravel)!
I called John and suggested that I'd start with eBay and USPS first, which he agreed. But I've googled through and looks like I'll have to talk to my 'local law enforcement' to sort things out with eBay regarding stolen items.
Since I'm overseas and not a US citizen, I was wondering which police department I should try to contact. I'm glad that there's an online route with Chicago. I'll fill in the form now.
I'll also let USPS know (probably via an online form of some sort... couldn't get them to pick up the phone last time, although I waited over an hour over here).
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J5
- So what gives?
Calicchio 1s/2 & R2/7r
Van Laar BR2 Flugelhorn |
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JoeLoeffler
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mm55
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Joined: 01 Jul 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:40 am Post subject: |
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You should definitely contact the "DeKalb County Police Department" in Tucker, Georgia; they are the police service in what appears to be the present location of the instrument. If the horn was stolen, then the police should be able to help. You need to contact the county police IMMEDIATELY, or the horn might disappear again. Contact the Tucker precinct of the DeKalb County police department at +1 770-724-7841 or +1 770-724-7842. Also contact the Chicago Police. DO NOT DELAY! You may be faced with some time, effort, and phone expenses, but I strongly suggest that you pursue this immediately and aggressively. The trumpet appears to be in Tucker, Georgia, so contacting the local police there is probably the most urgent; contact Duda and the Chicago police after that.
Save copies of all the eBay photos, as well as the entire advert (before it's taken down). If you have already initiated investigations with postal services in Korea and/or the USA, you should forward documentation of those investigations to the DeKalb County police.
_________________
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'79 King Silver Flair
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Last edited by mm55 on Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:07 am; edited 4 times in total |
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ALaschiver
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novaj5
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Joined: 10 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: |
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I've talked to the police departments in both cities but it seems that they are both really trying hard to avoid working on it. Jesus...
Tucker police department told me to contact Chicago police since it's where it was last seen, and so I did. And this lady on the phone in Chicago was just rude as a.... She's trying to get me going elsewhere with all this nonsense and later just cut off the call after giving me the USPS number. Man I can't believe that woman.
Somehow this time I could reach someone at the USPS inspections after all the hassle through the automated answering machine. The lady elevated my case (which was first recorded a few months ago when I was looking for it) and told me that it passes the requirements to be inspected on the US side.
But when I asked them how long it would take before I hear back from them, she told me it's going to take about a couple of weeks. So the least thing I can do is to win that bid, and wish that the seller doesn't find out that I've got my eyes on him/her before ending the auction.
I did save all the photos and the auction page. I'm honestly a bit puzzled with what I should do with the police though. I'll try to talk Tucker police into getting their hands on it somehow.
And thank you for continued messages & PM's guys. This is just crazy how you're all making it happening like this. I'm at loss of words but you guys are just downright AMAZING! My deepest appreciations to you all.
_________________
J5
- So what gives?
Calicchio 1s/2 & R2/7r
Van Laar BR2 Flugelhorn
Last edited by novaj5 on Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:26 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Tpt_Guy
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Joined: 16 Jul 2004
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Location: Sacramento, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:24 am Post subject: |
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If the horn was stolen while being handled by USPS, wouldnt that be a federal offense?
If so, it seems to me local law enforcement wouldn't be of much help but a federal agency would be able to obtain the necessary warrants to force eBay to hand over the seller's address then have stolen property retrieved.
USPS wouldn't be forced to reimburse the value of the trumpet, but as a federal agency, they carry the full power of enforcement of law over mail-related crimes.
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mm55
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Tpt_Guy wrote: | | If the horn was stolen while being handled by USPS, wouldnt that be a federal offense? |
Yes, but possession of stolen property is a state crime under the Georgia Code (it is considered theft), and the DeKalb County police have jurisdiction over the place where the stolen property is being possessed. The Chicago Police can't go to Tucker to secure the evidence. The DeKalb County police are the agency who can do that.
_________________
'75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
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mm55
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:35 am Post subject: |
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The same eBay seller was accused (in May 2018) by Thompson Music of selling a Hub van Laar trumpet and fluegelhorn stolen while in shipment. Maybe they can help. They may not have anything to do with the stolen Calicchio, but they have some experience already with this seller.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=256481833786&story_fbid=10156038975308787
_________________
'75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
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Tpt_Guy
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| mm55 wrote: | | Tpt_Guy wrote: | | If the horn was stolen while being handled by USPS, wouldnt that be a federal offense? |
Yes, but possession of stolen property is a state crime under the Georgia Code (it is considered theft), and the DeKalb County police have jurisdiction over the place where the stolen property is being possessed. The Chicago Police can't go to Tucker to secure the evidence. The DeKalb County police are the agency who can do that. |
I fail to see how this negates any federal jurisdiction, since it was stolen from USPS and that is a federal crime. Because USPS operates in all states, the United States Postal Inspection Service has jurisdiction over all crimes related to mail in all states.
If materials or equipment were stolen from any other federal agency, I doubt they'd say, "Well, it's in Georgia now. No longer our jurisdiction."
That said, I doubt USPS has their own version of a SWAT team, but that's why I mentioned they could obtain the necessary warrants to have the stolen property retrieved.
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John Mohan
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001
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Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:53 am Post subject: |
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When my Rolex was stolen by a Comcast Cable repairman (actually, as Comcast told me, he was an independent contractor for them), and I filed a police report, when I told the investigating officer I was going to make the pawn shop rounds he told me it was probably a waste of time because thieves often work in interstate cooperatives, where they steal stuff in one town and then ship it across the country to their associates who then pawn the stuff off in their locale to avoid people finding their own stolen stuff. The way the horn was stolen in Chicago, but wound up down in Georgia along with the second stolen horn mentioned above makes it appear to me that this eBay seller is a part of one of those type of schemes.
I sure hope the OP gets his horn back! |
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Christian K. Peters
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Joined: 12 Nov 2001
Posts: 1530
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:40 am Post subject: Stolen Calicchio |
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Hello all,
Here is the reply from the ebay seller:
Hello,
This item was aquired 100% legally through USPS auction. I’ve purchase a music lot with contained this instrument. Any issues you have you will need to take it up with USPS.
Thank you
He could care less...
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Christian K. Peters
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novaj5
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:42 am Post subject: |
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I talked to the DeKalb county officer but she's insisting that one needs its local address in the same area where the report is made in, to just start filing a report, that I should talk to police here in South Korea to just begin with. Arrrgh!
It's quite frustrating the way they're handling this. I'll try contacting the law enforcement here as well, while USPS inspectors are doing their thing.
To eBay I submitted the message saying it's my trumpet and the USPS inspection is on. Not sure how they would react.
Apparently the 2 Thompson Music horns that this same guy sold in May was also lost in Chicago while being shipped. We'll share whatever information together, but looks like Thompson Music guys have been struggling to get their inspection going. Said that they've been talking to everyone and couldn't get much help.
I just can't believe this seller. When Thompson Music wanted some proof of that legal purchase he made, he hasn't come up with a valid thing. This guy has been on eBay since 2001. If he's gone through this sort of trouble a few times he'd have something ready. I'm also suspicious of what John Mohan suggested. This is what I've heard from Thompson Music guy over the FB messenger:
"... That's where ours went missing. And Van Laar had issue with another shipment to Reeves going through Chicago. But there is no issue if it goes through the East coast customs"
_________________
J5
- So what gives?
Calicchio 1s/2 & R2/7r
Van Laar BR2 Flugelhorn
Last edited by novaj5 on Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:02 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Assuming the seller is telling the truth that he purchased this at an USPS this points to incompetence at best, fraud at worst, within the post office. It would seem that the inspector general would take interst.
It won’t help the OP, but might help someone else down the line.
Sorry for your loss, frustration about dealing with this long distance and the lack of assistance from the authorities. |
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LittleRusty
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| I assume you have been to the inspector general site, but if not I would bring this to their attention, especially with the extra info from Thompson and VanLaar. |
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mm55
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Posts: 1412
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| novaj5 wrote: | | If he's gone through this sort of trouble a few times he'd have something ready. |
For a while, his eBay ads contained this text: | Quote: | The item for sale was legally obtained through a United States federally sanctioned government auction. This item legally belongs to me.
Please don’t send any harassing message about how this is stolen. You will be immediately reported to ebay and law enforcement.
I’m an honest seller, and do not buy or sell stolen goods. |
So he's been here before. He was actually threatening theft victims with being "reported to ebay and law enforcement." It's certainly relevant that the seller can't prove where he bought the horn.
Also, for what it's worth, the USPS "Mail Recovery Center" is in Atlanta (very close to DeKalb County).
_________________
'75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
Last edited by mm55 on Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JetJaguar
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Does USPS keep track of what they sell at their auctions?
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LittleRusty
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| jetjaguar wrote: | | Does USPS keep track of what they sell at their auctions? |
| LittleRusty wrote: | | I assume you have been to the inspector general site, but if not I would bring this to their attention, especially with the extra info from Thompson and VanLaar. |
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BillyM
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Out of curiosity I messaged the seller regarding the horn and he responded:
"Hello,
Item was purchased 100% legally at the United States Postal service government auction. I do have proof of purchase of the music lot that I purchased.
Thank you" |
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novaj5
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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When I was talking to the USPS inspector she found that there's a record of it, since I did make a search request in Januray. It expired in March though...
She elevated the case to the higher level but I should try to grab whatever evidence / proof to have this inspection get going. mm5, do you have any links or screenshots that he included that text in his eBay ads? Thank you for loads of information, btw!
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J5
- So what gives?
Calicchio 1s/2 & R2/7r
Van Laar BR2 Flugelhorn |
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novaj5
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you BillyM. I'll ask him for the proof. Should help me at least track down if it's valid.
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J5
- So what gives?
Calicchio 1s/2 & R2/7r
Van Laar BR2 Flugelhorn |
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