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aidanolesen New Member
Joined: 20 Mar 2018 Posts: 6
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:30 am Post subject: Doubling on trumpet and euphonium |
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Hi guys,
Due to the overflow of trumpets in an orchestra, I thought about maybe playing euphonium instead.
Is playing euphonium as a trumpet player a good idea (for chops and endurance) and if so, what tips would you guys give me??
Thanks _________________ Aidan Olesen |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:35 am Post subject: |
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There are only about 3 pieces that call for euphonium in a conventional orchestra. Might want to think that one over again.
As for doubling like that working, check out James Morrison sometime. Doesn't seem to hurt him at all.
_________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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aidanolesen New Member
Joined: 20 Mar 2018 Posts: 6
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:37 am Post subject: |
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RandyTX wrote: | There are only about 3 pieces that call for euphonium in a conventional orchestra. Might want to think that one over again.
As for doubling like that working, check out James Morrison sometime. Doesn't seem to hurt him at all.
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This is for a graduation orchestra and there are Euphonium parts luckily. _________________ Aidan Olesen |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2660 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:31 am Post subject: |
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If you can play on a trombone sized instrument, as well as a trumpet, then you are good to go.
What you DO need to practice is the change from one to the other, so you can cope swapping about. I have to teach a lot of trombone currently (love that forward planning and preparation!) so I actually have to lug one from campus to campus and this can see me teach alternating instruments in lessons.
Some of the things I see have helped me are:
Swap between the mouthpieces - buzz a LOT.
Get a GOOD trombone (I have a Bach 42K)
Don't try to play aggressively on your non-major instrument, make it sing.
Go play trumpet a lot somewhere else!
Under NO circumstances do you mention you can wail on a French horn. To anyone. This is asking for trouble!
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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Lionel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016 Posts: 783
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Doubling on trumpet and euphonium |
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aidanolesen wrote: | Hi guys,
Due to the overflow of trumpets in an orchestra, I thought about maybe playing euphonium instead.
Is playing euphonium as a trumpet player a good idea (for chops and endurance) and if so, what tips would you guys give me??
Thanks |
I don't know your age so please take or leave my remarks depending upon if they apply to you or not.
I too began doubling on Euphonium in the 9th grade. Then eventually learned the slide trombone (THAT is the ultimate instrument you want to double on but more on that later maybe). Take heed from my experience my younger friend!! Switching to low brass may be both a blessing and a curse. As I'll explain.
It is easy to become typecast as a lower brass instrumentalist. Usually because it is in the school music director's career interest that you "stick to trombone " (or Euphonium, Baritone etc.). And once this image about you is cast? You may never be able to return to this group's ensemble as a trumpet player ever again. I know! Happened to me. I spent my last year of middle school and all three high school years stuck on trombone.
In fact even after I got accepted into three different music colleges during my senior year? I was not permitted to blow my trumpet in the band. Let me tell ya, "life ain't fair"... In fact the only song which I ever played trumpet on during my high school years was an upper register piece I had transcribed by myself.
So? Be extra careful when dealing with band director's on these kinds of things. As the director will choose to decide in favor of what he thinks is best for him or herself. _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 830 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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I know that Dr. Wadowick ... the Trumpet Professor at Troy University many years ago use to play Tuba in the marching band. _________________ Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Lynn Nicholson Model Monette Prana XLT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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boog Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2014 Posts: 247
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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I double on trumpet and euphonium in my local community concert band, but not during the same performance. I choose one or the other in preparation for a concert depending on the available personnel in either section for the semester.
I find that playing on the larger euphonium mouthpiece to be beneficial to my trumpet playing. The exercise my embouchure gets seems to help my range and tone on the trumpet. However, switching back and forth during the same performance does not allow me to play my best on either instrument, but that is probably just me. I have known a few players who could do it without much to-do. To name a few off the top of my head, Mic Gillette, Maynard Ferguson, James Morrison. One of the trombone players in my jazz ensemble is also an accomplished trumpet player. My lead trumpet plays valve trombone on solos occasionally. My second tenor sax also doubles on trombone, but we are belaboring the point.
If you can handle it, go for it. Just being able to play several instruments does not excuse you from practicing! If you are going to be listenable on more than one instrument, you must practice all of them.
Good luck!
YMMV |
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Lionel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016 Posts: 783
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Doubling on trumpet and euphonium |
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aidanolesen wrote: | Hi guys,
Due to the overflow of trumpets in an orchestra, I thought about maybe playing euphonium instead.
Is playing euphonium as a trumpet player a good idea (for chops and endurance) and if so, what tips would you guys give me??
Thanks |
Audanolesen,
Pardon me for posting twice in succession. However my first post just a couple above stands as a caution only. A first hand experience I went through in high schook many years ago caused me a fair amount of emotional anguish. This due to my mere ability to double. No more need to dwell on that issue. Now however I'd like to tell you my experience involved with doubling.
I find this topic to be kind of a councidence in as much as I've relatively recently returned to blowing trombone. In fact just last night with a college Jazz big band I spent about 60% of the gig on 3rd trombone and the other 40% on lead and/or the solo on the trumpet book. When doubling on lower brass instruments I've found that there are really 3 techniques necessary needed to pull it off. Which I will describe,
1. Trumpet. Though pretty obvious, in order to double on trombone I think that the trumpet should be this musician's primary instrument. And there's a reason for this. As the embouchure for trumpet is far more exacting. It requires a mych more refined set of muscles.
2. You've got to be at least a decent sounding trombonist. Yet this does not require that it be your primary instrument.
3. Switching back and forth. The usual problem is going back to the smaller mourhpiece. Of the three techniques outlined here? This one is the most practice dependent.
Other points:
Take your time learning (both your Euphonium & switching back & forth). After a long layoff. Or rather after a long period of not blowing the trombone my doubling ability goes to hell. Like I said, switching back & forth is a very practice dependent ability.
So the beginning Euphonium doubler must take caution not to play the larger lower brass mouthpiece too long. At least not too long relative to your stage of development. I recommend that you keep a record of how much bass clef work you do. Then stay within those parameters on any important gig.
After 2 to 3 weeks of playing low brass an average of just 15 mins/day you can start switching back and forth "on the fly" so to speak. Again taking extreme not to over-do it.
My most recent "Comeback" to Trombone began around last November. And it's close to as almost complete as it ever was since back in the day. Again, I still must keep up my doubling techique. More so than even my trumpet technique. Like last night I literally switched from the 3rd T-bone book to lead trumpet about 4 times during the. What I noticed was that my trumpet chops returned to completely normal some 10 minutes after I'd stopped playing trombone.
I also noticed that during this transition period I'd temporarily lost about a minor third off my extreme upper register. This was acceptable however because by losing that minor third? I still had a good, solid E natural above high C. And if I keep at this all Summer? I should return in the Autumn with all of my range. Right on up to the high G.
Lower brass work really helps. First it assists my lung capacity develoment. Next it helps build stronger facial muscles in my outer embouchure area.
Good luck! _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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