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Jordynbaxter
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Joined: 08 Dec 2017
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Location: Glasgow UK
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 Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:46 am Post subject: Self taught trumpet practise schedule advice - beginner |
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Posted in the wrong bit so moved here.
Looking for some advice on how to break up my practise sessions to make the most efficient use of the time (about an hour weekdays, maybe 2/3 at the weekends).
Currently literature i have at my disposal:
Arbans
Clarke technical studies
ABRSM jazz grade 1 repitoire book with backing track cd
ABRSM classical and jazz scales/arpeggios books
Embouchure builder book
Routine i tried to follow last week was:
5mins warm up (mouth piece buzzing then long tones middle g down to low g)
15 mins clarke technical study 1
15 mins embouchure builder
15 mins arbans 1st studies (1st page)
15 scales
I rest after each line/ exercise for the same time played but even then the arbans was a disaster, couldn't even play a the 4th line D and middle c was ropy. And that continued to the next day where i one arbans 1st, so i think i busted my chops up a bit.
Really disheartening, am i going about things the right way or can someone maybe suggest a better format for laying out my practise time? |
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dstdenis
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:31 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't recommend the Arban method for a beginner; it's too difficult (even the first page). Instead, you might try 100 Progressive Lessons, by Hickman (paper or digital download), or Mitchell on Trumpet Book 1.
I'm also keen on the Franquin Method, which is available by paper or digital download. It has a section for beginners and extensive text guidance, including a suggested practice routine, which would be helpful for you.
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Jordynbaxter
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Joined: 08 Dec 2017
Posts: 28
Location: Glasgow UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| dstdenis wrote: | I wouldn't recommend the Arban method for a beginner; it's too difficult (even the first page). Instead, you might try 100 Progressive Lessons, by Hickman (paper or digital download), or Mitchell on Trumpet Book 1.
I'm also keen on the Franquin Method, which is available by paper or digital download. It has a section for beginners and extensive text guidance, including a suggested practice routine, which would be helpful for you. |
Thanks for your reply, though i should state now that i am not a complete beginner. I played for a couple of years as a kid (age 10-12) but i wasnt very commited to practising between lessons and therefor was not as good as you might expect someone to be after 2 years playing. Im 27 now and have been back playing for about a month. I am definitely not intermediate.. |
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NERO
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Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:52 am Post subject: |
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I'm not far from your situation... comeback player and self taught... so take my advice carefully 
i think you're doing too much too soon... take some time to play standards or improvise a bit over a tune... so you will enjoy your trumpet and relax your chops.
music should be fun... |
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trickg
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
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Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| dstdenis wrote: | | I wouldn't recommend the Arban method for a beginner; it's too difficult (even the first page). |
Really? Are we talking about the same Arban's book because the exercises in the beginning of mine are very simple - at least that's how I remember them - it's been a while since I've used them.
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Jordynbaxter
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Joined: 08 Dec 2017
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Location: Glasgow UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| trickg wrote: | | dstdenis wrote: | | I wouldn't recommend the Arban method for a beginner; it's too difficult (even the first page). |
Really? Are we talking about the same Arban's book because the exercises in the beginning of mine are very simple - at least that's how I remember them - it's been a while since I've used them. |
First page goes up as high as top line F, i know that i couldnt go up that high as a complete beginner. I have zero discernable talent though. |
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Andy Del
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Jordynbaxter wrote: | | Thanks for your reply, though i should state now that i am not a complete beginner. I played for a couple of years as a kid (age 10-12) but i wasnt very commited to practising between lessons and therefor was not as good as you might expect someone to be after 2 years playing. Im 27 now and have been back playing for about a month. I am definitely not intermediate.. |
It may sound a little blunt, but this sounds like one who is in the same league as lawyers who represent themselves in court. 2 years playing. 15 years not playing. You are, completely and utterly, a beginner player.
That is the first mistake - overestimating your abilities at this stage. you are overdoing things a lot. You need to play in much smaller sessions breaking them up over the day: even 30 minutes morning and night would help.
Second error is teaching yourself. You know you didn't practice very much as a kid. That does not equate to someone with years of experience, a large and comprehensive knowledge base and experience teaching. I would seek a better qualified person to guide you.
So, the best advice you will get here is the advice most commonly dished up - get a good teacher! We do not know anything more than your description of issues and by your own admission, you know very little about the instrument s a rank beginner. Our specific advice will be misguided, or better, unguided. Anything less than this is going to hide reality from yourself and slow your potential progress. As harsh as this sounds, you should do it for your benefit!
So, get that teacher and start to undo what you have done to yourself.
cheers
Andy
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trickg
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: |
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I'm always kind of surprised by the folks who begin playing trumpet as full-fledged adults. When kids begin, they are just happy to be playing anything, and they don't have the kinds of expectations adults do. They don't mind sounding terrible for the whole first year, or not having any range past a tuning C, or having a gnarly, immature sound.
The main reason for this is that they simply don't know any better. Therefore, they slog on through, going to band class and private lessons (for the ones lucky enough to get private lessons) for the 3-4 years before they really start taking to the instrument and start making music. That's for those who actually get to a place where it's better. The number of kids who get to their senior year of HS and continue to advance the whole way (and this is due to a number of factors that deal with social life, dedication to the instrument, talent, work ethic, etc) is actually pretty small. Of the 10-12 kids I started with, there were two of us who got to a point where we were pretty solid, and I was head and shoulders better than the other guy.
Here's a sobering thought - I was into my 7th year as a player before I got to the point where I had the kind of polish to where I could go out and play for a wedding and actually get paid for it.
In any case, adults tend to not have that kind of patience, and they know how rough they sound from the outset, and there is no shortcut for becoming a proficient player. I'm not sure adult beginners on the trumpet fully grasp what they are in for when they start. Even with a teacher, it's going to be 2+ years of just finding your embouchure and developing basic foundation technique, and that can be frustrating when you simply don't have the chops, ability or polish to do much beyond basic, elementary playing.
I wish you luck, and I hope you are one of the few to see it through.
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Nonsense Eliminator
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Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 5212
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:22 am Post subject: |
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If you're practicing while you're tired, you're practicing bad habits. That's counterproductive, so don't do that. For a beginning player, 15-20 minutes (half of which is rest) at a time is plenty. If you're tired after 5 minutes, put it down for a bit and come back. Have a coffee and listen to some great trumpet playing or something.
Ask yourself: Is this getting better? If not, why not?
Usually, the answer is either you're tired or you're doing something stupid or both. If you're too tired to do something you can normally do, you should put the trumpet down. Fighting the urge to over-practice is tremendously beneficial, but can be difficult -- I find myself ignoring this advice way too often, always to my own detriment.
If you put the horn downbefore you're tired, you'll be ready to go again sooner and you'll sound better when you do. So by playing for shorter stretches at a time, over the course of a day you'll be able to play more, and that time will be more productive.
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Jordynbaxter
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Joined: 08 Dec 2017
Posts: 28
Location: Glasgow UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Del wrote: | | Jordynbaxter wrote: | | Thanks for your reply, though i should state now that i am not a complete beginner. I played for a couple of years as a kid (age 10-12) but i wasnt very commited to practising between lessons and therefor was not as good as you might expect someone to be after 2 years playing. Im 27 now and have been back playing for about a month. I am definitely not intermediate.. |
It may sound a little blunt, but this sounds like one who is in the same league as lawyers who represent themselves in court. 2 years playing. 15 years not playing. You are, completely and utterly, a beginner player.
That is the first mistake - overestimating your abilities at this stage. you are overdoing things a lot. You need to play in much smaller sessions breaking them up over the day: even 30 minutes morning and night would help.
Second error is teaching yourself. You know you didn't practice very much as a kid. That does not equate to someone with years of experience, a large and comprehensive knowledge base and experience teaching. I would seek a better qualified person to guide you.
So, the best advice you will get here is the advice most commonly dished up - get a good teacher! We do not know anything more than your description of issues and by your own admission, you know very little about the instrument s a rank beginner. Our specific advice will be misguided, or better, unguided. Anything less than this is going to hide reality from yourself and slow your potential progress. As harsh as this sounds, you should do it for your benefit!
So, get that teacher and start to undo what you have done to yourself.
cheers
Andy |
I am not overestimating my own abilities lol i know i'm rubbish. But to me a complete and utter beginner is someone who can barely blow a note, i can play a little and i was more getting at the fact the post that i replied to was stating arbans wasnt for beginners, presumably because it has up to 5th lines Fs on the 1st studies, which i could play when i done the exercises. I do still class myself as a beginner though.
A private tutor would be ideal, unfortunately i cant afford the £25 per week fees at the moment, or at least i cant jusify the outlay, so im having to make do without for now. |
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Jordynbaxter
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Joined: 08 Dec 2017
Posts: 28
Location: Glasgow UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| trickg wrote: | I'm always kind of surprised by the folks who begin playing trumpet as full-fledged adults. When kids begin, they are just happy to be playing anything, and they don't have the kinds of expectations adults do. They don't mind sounding terrible for the whole first year, or not having any range past a tuning C, or having a gnarly, immature sound.
The main reason for this is that they simply don't know any better. Therefore, they slog on through, going to band class and private lessons (for the ones lucky enough to get private lessons) for the 3-4 years before they really start taking to the instrument and start making music. That's for those who actually get to a place where it's better. The number of kids who get to their senior year of HS and continue to advance the whole way (and this is due to a number of factors that deal with social life, dedication to the instrument, talent, work ethic, etc) is actually pretty small. Of the 10-12 kids I started with, there were two of us who got to a point where we were pretty solid, and I was head and shoulders better than the other guy.
Here's a sobering thought - I was into my 7th year as a player before I got to the point where I had the kind of polish to where I could go out and play for a wedding and actually get paid for it.
In any case, adults tend to not have that kind of patience, and they know how rough they sound from the outset, and there is no shortcut for becoming a proficient player. I'm not sure adult beginners on the trumpet fully grasp what they are in for when they start. Even with a teacher, it's going to be 2+ years of just finding your embouchure and developing basic foundation technique, and that can be frustrating when you simply don't have the chops, ability or polish to do much beyond basic, elementary playing.
I wish you luck, and I hope you are one of the few to see it through. |
This is so true, my mrs actually said when she came the house when i was practising the other day, "it sounds like a child is playing." It is very frustrating and maybe thats why im overdoing it a little but i guess brass instruments are like guitars where you can play 5 hours a day soon after starting!
Thats cool man im doing this for personal enjoyment for now, so maybe in 20 years ill be good enough to get paid for gigs, and i could retire from my current job at 40  |
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TKSop
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Jordynbaxter wrote: |
A private tutor would be ideal, unfortunately i cant afford the £25 per week fees at the moment, or at least i cant jusify the outlay, so im having to make do without for now. |
Have you tried contacting your local brass bands?
They'd probably prefer cornet to trumpet (but you can always switch if/when you're ready to step from training band to main band) but the chances are you'd get access to some "okay" tuition for next to nothing.
Even fairly mediocre instruction is usually better than going it 100% alone. |
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cheiden
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Before I got into lessons I got a lot of use out of the three Vizzutti books. I found them easier to negotiate than books like Arbans and Clarke.
With adequate instruction some of the best books I've found are:
Stamp Method
Schlossberg
Clarke
Irons
Harris
Bai Lin
St Jacome
I agree that your daily routine should never leave you feeling busted. I still remember when I developed to the point that I got tired before the lips failed.
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Jordynbaxter
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Location: Glasgow UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| dstdenis wrote: | I wouldn't recommend the Arban method for a beginner; it's too difficult (even the first page). Instead, you might try 100 Progressive Lessons, by Hickman (paper or digital download), or Mitchell on Trumpet Book 1.
I'm also keen on the Franquin Method, which is available by paper or digital download. It has a section for beginners and extensive text guidance, including a suggested practice routine, which would be helpful for you. |
I downloaded hickmans bro cheers. First few exercises were really easy but thats good! I had a quick browse and it doesnt look like it will take long to get challenging for me, so thats perfect thanks! Ill keep on the emboucher builder and working my way through the scales as well.
Maybe cut my practise sessions to half an hour and try to get 2 a day in. |
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Andy Del
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| Jordynbaxter wrote: | | A private tutor would be ideal, unfortunately i cant afford the £25 per week fees at the moment, or at least i cant jusify the outlay, so im having to make do without for now. |
If you can't justify a small amount each week to learn to play well instead of floundering about on your own, then how do you justify wishing to play well?
After all, you are not willing to take steps to do so.
I sound harsh, true. The issue is, you do NOT know what you need to know, and you don't know what you don't know WRT playing the trumpet.
Good luck with your endeavours.
cheers
Andy
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dstdenis
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Jordynbaxter wrote: | | dstdenis wrote: | I wouldn't recommend the Arban method for a beginner; it's too difficult (even the first page). Instead, you might try 100 Progressive Lessons, by Hickman (paper or digital download), or Mitchell on Trumpet Book 1.
I'm also keen on the Franquin Method, which is available by paper or digital download. It has a section for beginners and extensive text guidance, including a suggested practice routine, which would be helpful for you. |
I downloaded hickmans bro cheers. First few exercises were really easy but thats good! I had a quick browse and it doesnt look like it will take long to get challenging for me, so thats perfect thanks! Ill keep on the emboucher builder and working my way through the scales as well.
Maybe cut my practise sessions to half an hour and try to get 2 a day in. |
Sounds like a plan. Even if the first few exercises seem easy, you can gain from them. Play one through, rest, think about one thing you’d like to do better and play it again. This will build a habit of close listening and continuous improvement. Good luck.
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Jordynbaxter
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Posts: 28
Location: Glasgow UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Andy Del wrote: | | Jordynbaxter wrote: | | A private tutor would be ideal, unfortunately i cant afford the £25 per week fees at the moment, or at least i cant jusify the outlay, so im having to make do without for now. |
If you can't justify a small amount each week to learn to play well instead of floundering about on your own, then how do you justify wishing to play well?
After all, you are not willing to take steps to do so.
I sound harsh, true. The issue is, you do NOT know what you need to know, and you don't know what you don't know WRT playing the trumpet.
Good luck with your endeavours.
cheers
Andy |
I'm not ruling it out indefinitely but if i can progress for now without then i will. |
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beagle
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Jordynbaxter wrote: |
I'm not ruling it out indefinitely but if i can progress for now without then i will. |
When I started on trumpet as an adult beginner, I wanted to give myself every chance of success and found myself a teacher from day one. Even though I was very motivated and good at teaching myself things (I used to work in research), and was also an experienced jazz guitarist, I knew that this was the most efficient way to get a proper grounding in a new instrument. I'm now performing regular paid gigs with my jazz quintet, and a few months back I started going to a teacher again who is helping me to reach a new level of playing.
Even if you only pay for one lesson with a decent teacher, I'm sure you won't regret it. It doesn't have to be straight away if you feel that you are achieving enough on your own. But if your motivation drops or progress starts to slow, consider forking out that 25 quid and I bet once you do, you'll wish you'd gone sooner.
Regards,
Rob
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cheiden
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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I routinely advocate for at least a lesson or two. Ideally you'll get a lesson plan template suitable for your current needs. And you'll also have someone model what you should strive to achieve with each of the exercises. These things are invaluable.
I was a self-taught player who played 1st chair much of the time from 5th grade through high school. But I was doing things terribly wrong and suffered because of it. Not entirely sure I'll ever overcome all of the issues that got ingrained in those dark times.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Jordynbaxter
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Location: Glasgow UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for all the comments/advice guys. |
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