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Trumpet Returnee


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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:45 pm    Post subject: Trumpet Returnee Reply with quote

I was part of the Lost Forum Event of January 2018 and had to re-register and have restarted. I'm grateful for TrumpetHerald because almost every topic I look up has had multiple dedicated discussion. I also like the positive/can-do vibe.

Recap
-Back after 20+ years
-Have been playing violin some with the kids, but turns out I'm a million times better at trumpet, which makes it more fun to practice
-In high school was in orchestra, band, marching band, jazz band, pep band

And
-This time I'm starting out on a Carol C Pocket Trumpet, which plays pretty well
-Also have switched to their 3c mouthpiece, which I quite like
-Will eventually buy a Bb, but undecided on model and timeframe

And
-My main goal initially is playing along with hymns, doxology in church
-First time playing publicly in about 10 days
-Hope to be able to play at Easter

Challenges
-Breathing (get out of breath easily and probably need to write in places to breath at first)
-Procrastination (less time surfing, more time practicing
-Otherwise, just getting restarted (surprised that this time around, perhaps because of mouthpiece and new embouchure, feel like tone and range are comparable or better to the past)

Also
-Son (almost 10/ 4th grade) is interested in trumpet but is having trouble producing a good sound on the mouthpiece
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a local brass store today. They sell Bach/Schilke and a few other brands. I bought my son a generic "Principal 1" mouthpiece that they said is smaller than my 3c, and he is happily buzzing. I also bought some polishing/cleaning cloths, and a snake and mouthpiece brush.

I decided to spend for a Shhhmute. I tried a Japanese version--not sure which name--in plastic and metal, but the shmmute was the cheapest and seemed to have similar resistance. I'm hoping if I play in my apartment during the day away from the windows, the neighbors will be okay with that, and then I can play muted at night if necessary.

About 9 days to go until my first play-along at church. Feeling happy to be back on trumpet again...
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bear30101
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome back and congratulations on starting a new generation on the journey.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! I think son is up to two notes now, which is a big jump.

I'm spending too much time looking at trumpets instead of practicing the one I have.

I also am working on tone, so I spent some time today doing long notes and seeing how in-tune I was.

My goal for this week is to spend some time with the metronome on my phone. I'm a little nervous about keeping up with the pianist at church a week from Sunday. On the one hand, I never have trouble keeping up when singing, but I can see how playing on trumpet might throw me.
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck on the church gig.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comments and encouragements.

In coming back, the two main challenges for me seem to be endurance and breath. I guess a third is consistency--of figuring out what a "good" practice looks like. This time around is basically the opposite of last, when I played a lot with others but didn't practice much. Now I'm practicing more but not doing a lot with others. Right now I'm doing ~30 minute practices, with long notes, scales, arpeggios, and slurring to start, and then some practice of hymns.

I think I am okay for Sunday playing along with the hymns. I probably need to sit down with a competent church musician to figure out how I would mix up things in the future (playing harmony and descants, which people here have recommended).

I also would like to get a trumpet teacher. I found a place with music lessons. I don't know how good their teachers would be. I need someone at least as good as me, hopefully with a trumpet degree. They do 50 minute lessons. I wonder if I could instead split lessons with my son, or we'd do 2 lessons back-to-back once a month.

I also have started a conversation on getting a Carol 506, which might be a better practice instrument. I'm thinking of leaving a mouthpiece up at my worksite (I have kind of an isolated office). I've ordered a cheapo 1 1/2 clone. Does anyone know if it is terrible to practice occasionally on different mouthpieces? The Carol 3c seems like a good fit for me, but I'd also maybe like to try a bigger and smaller mouthpiece.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe it's fine to play different mouthpieces. Read and glean what you can from these forums; listen to a lot of great playing on YouTube (and don't listen to bad playing..."...if it sounds bad, it is bad..."); practice as much as you can. Best to you!
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted over in the performance section (where I got a lot of good advice earlier) about playing along with hymns today at church. It was a good experience! I think I can do Easter also.

In the meantime, I'm going to go back to general practice with a mix of long tones, scales, Arben's, and playing through hymns. One of my goals is to figure out descants

I'm still hunting for a Bb trumpet, but am closing in.

I'm grateful to this forum for its help in getting me restarted.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have my Bb now, which I posted about in another forum. I found a pretty decent Carol 506. It polished up to almost new and I like the feel and tone of it. That said, after playing on my pocket C for the last month, the Bb feels heavier and less open than I remember in the past. On the C I definitely have better articulation and range seems a little higher and more relaxed. I remember reading someone here who basically abandoned Bb for C. I will probably stick with Bb for now, for the ability to be part of a band or group somewhere down the road, and in order to help my son start some trumpet, but honestly I think playing on the C is more fun.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today I tried playing on my Bb while looking at a tuner. It was a helpful exercise! I think my first time around on trumpet I was not very aware of intonation. I'm going to try to do better this time around. I'd also like to learn the alternate fingerings for C trumpet and work on my intonation there.
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INTJ
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing to keep in mind as you are developing, especially in these very early stages, is that your perceptions will change as you progress.

The Bb trumpet gives us the highest range and biggest sound. It is the most flexible of all. The other trumpets help us specialize, usually in terms of tone quality and precision.

My Bb has a sound that allows me to project lead parts over the band, blend when needed, and even lets me get a soft flugel like sound. I can and do play in tune across 3.5 octaves.

My C has a slightly more compact sound, ringing without producing edge--part of that is the MP I use on the C. I can play three octaves in tune on this horn though I usually only need 2.5 octaves for most C parts.

My picc is in tune over about an octave and a half, which is enough. It has a very compact sound and very clean articulations in the upper range.

My flugel is in tune over 2.5 octaves and plays with a nice mellow tone when played softly. A flugel shouldn't be played loud as it loses the classic flugel sound at volumes over about MF.

I always practice with a tuner on my stand. Some guys go nuts when they hear that and start talking about how we have to tune with the band and how each note in a chord, other than the root, needs to be a little sharp or flat to get that perfectly in tune chord. I do all that and still practice with tuner on my stand.

I find that many trumpet players, especially when we are just starting or are early in our comeback, play certain notes way out of tune. The classic example is G on top of the staff. It is commonly a 1/4 step sharp. There is no note in any chord that should be a 1/4 step sharp. Low C# and D are also way sharp and that is why most horns have a third valve slide.

The tuner on the stand gives us immediate visual feedback. It helps train our to ear hear the pitch correctly and helps build in us the habit of generally playing notes in tune. When we by habit play the notes in tune then it is easy to make the small adjustments to tune to the band and tune our note in the chord.

I am approaching year 17 of my comeback after a 20+ year layoff.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for this, INTJ--it's a big help. (For the record, I think I'm an INFP, but I is close to the E.)

For my C, I actually really only need about 1.5 octaves. Playing it solo I don't notice notes out of tune, but I tried playing with my son on violin and we really clashed. I think I probably need to learn up on tuning it to another instrument also. I can imagine that tuning for an orchestra, tuning to a piano, and tuning to a single violin are all different.

The Bb trumpet plays very in tune and it is a lot of trumpet. I'm a little afraid to play "full blast" in my apartment. I think I had often used the 1st/3rd triggers for the D below the scale, but on my phone tuner that note is looking pretty in tune. The D above the scale seems out of tune, however. I'll keep practicing and reading up. I'd also like to try to work on transposing. I probably will have to write things out at first.
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INTJ
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a Bb, Fourth line D is usually a flat note. The one above High C is REALLY flat. Many C trumpets are very flat on Fourth line D and Fourth space E. I finger those 1&3 and 1&2, respectively on my C. There are a lot more notes on trumpet that naturally a bit out of tune. The tuner is a big help.

Playing with other instruments is indeed critical. Strings tend to go sharp as they play, sometimes a lot. Woodwinds usually go flat. Brass instruments goes sharp as do pipe organs.

The biggest secret to all this is simply to play as much as you can, but avoid playing when tired, especially during rehearsals and personal practice. Playing when tired trains us to play the wrong way.

Also, never play “full blast.” 70-80% if your maximum obtainable volume is the loudest you should ever play. The trumpet projects best when focused and in tune to maybe a little sharp. When we play too loud our sound spreads and it doesn’t project.

I have to constantly monitor that. I am now working up the “Send in the Clowns” solo from the Kenton ‘76 album. I have played this before. I can barely hear myself over the band, yet in front if the bell many people have told me I am VERY loud. I need to back off so I can get through the solo. It’s hard to back off.......
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still struggling with intonation, but probably need a teacher to help me. I realized that when I play along with my phone tuner I am more-or-less in tune regardless of using slides. At the same time, this doesn't mean I'm in tune when playing with piano. I'm hoping Sunday I can get some time with the pianist for when I play in a couple of weeks.

For mouthpiece I have been struggling with what to do. The 7c I have my son on now clearly feels too small. The Carol 3c is pretty good, but bottom lips moves more than I'm used to and it seems very open. I wonder if this could also be why, at least on Bb, I produce a ton of moisture. I have a Dennis Wick 4b I'm trying. I also tried a generic 1 1/2 that's a little big. I probably should be somewhere in the 1 1/2 to 5c range and just need to try all the different variations within that range (Bachs, Yamahas, Schilkes, etc.). In the past I played a Schilke 15b, which is also in this range. This Dennis Wick is goldplated and from c. 1992. I have never played on one of their mouthpieces before. My range is a little higher on the Carol and I like the sound, but maybe it's a little big/open/fast for me.

I'm also trying to decide what to do on projection. I didn't blare when I played in church the first time and my wife said she didn't hear any mistakes (I know there were mistakes, but because I was trying to play with/under the piano they were probably less audible). I was told I can "play out" at Easter, but am still trying to gauge how bold I'm willing to be.

I'm now up to three trumpets. My favorite for all around to play is the Bb but I quite like my pocket C. I have a mini pocket now that I think will be useful but is probably basically a "goofing around" instrument.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm continuing to make progress. I have now fully switched mouthpieces, to the Denis Wick 4b. I wasn't sure about this at first. The rim seems flatter and wider (but perhaps slightly smaller diameter?), but it seems to be a better "fit" in general for my lip, with less movement and comparable tone. It's gold plate, which is the first time I've played on that. The Carol 3c made me nervous because one that came with one of the used trumpets had already lost a lot of plating. I also feel like it was a little too open--I don't know if that was cup size, roundedness or back bore. For now the DW seems to work.

On hardware, I'm learning how to play on the pocket trumpets better. I have my C pocket, which I'll play at Easter, and then I got the Bb mini pocket for my son. The key I've found is to get my fingers past the spitvalves so I'm holding more underneath and in front rather than around the valves. On the C initially my finger was wedged up against the spitvalve and it wasn't comfortable. At the same time if I kept my whole hand up higher on the instrument (maybe playing with ring finger in the ring), then my right hand got pulled into stabilizing and working the slides was more awkward. On the C what I do is have a hankerchief under the spitvalve and then wrap my last two fingers over the whole third slide (with middle finger in the ring), including the hankerchief. On the mini pocket I can fit all my fingers on the front of the main tubing (rather than underneath or wrapped around the valves) and it now feels quite comfortable. I think it's going to work.

I'm still struggling on tuning. I played to an electric piano we have and I sounded in tune, but this may be that I was able to match notes one by one or that the church piano is more out of tune. Either way, that's an area I need to continue to work on. I am noticing that my use of slides does not seem to help a lot on the electric tuner. On my old Bach I remember slides making things better, but here I feel like my intonation is basically independent of the slides. It may be that eventually I need to just go and try a dozen C trumpets and see what works best. I think the C pocket is "pretty good" but I probably need to check it out with a better player.

For Easter I have a few notes that are on the high side for me--Gs or As above the staff. I can now consistently play up to high C in scales, but I also want to work on slurring up and down and hitting higher notes clearly on the first try. I'm probably playing a little too much on mute now, but I basically have to.

This group was very helpful in giving me things to look for when playing hymns (alternating, for instance, melody, harmony, melody, descant). I'll see how it goes Sunday--I wish I'd had more lower pressure opportunities to play in public, but the flip side is that one reason I took up trumpet now is that I know that this whole congregation is pretty relaxed.

More to come...
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This week I'm working on transposing and it's not hard as I thought. It seems like 99% of the time I just play a note higher and add 2#s. Most of the music I play has between 3bs and 3#s so I am just going to practice more on scales and arpeggios for extra #s (scales with 4, 5, 6 sharps).

Beyond that I just have to figure out where to put the limited time I have. I wrote elsewhere that my Easter play-along went well. I'm looking into a getting a lower brass Bb marching trombone, just for fun. My son is able to play C and G now on his pocket trumpet.

The nature of this hobby for me is that it may be on-again-off-again, but I'm enjoying more music in my life.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote:
The nature of this hobby for me is that it may be on-again-off-again, but I'm enjoying more music in my life.

If I didn't love playing music, I wouldn't do it, so IMO you are in it for the right reasons. I have structured my entire life around the ability to continue to play and gig, and I wouldn't change a thing.

I think it's good that you've stretched yourself and have found a performance outlet. Nothing will push you further or faster than prepping for a real performance.

You didn't mention how the Easter gig went. How did it go?
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi trickg,

Thanks for the post! Easter went well. I was a bit intimated by the piano player, who adds a lot of flourishes and is harder to follow. I kind of chickened out on playing different lines, but was happy with how it went. One of my goals has been to just be able to play along on my C. I'm adding transposing because I think I'd project more on my Bb. Here's the Easter post:
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=146288&sid=c1214a7524a3041d81163a3d1173bdca

Summer here everything quiets down--the main pianist goes away, the pastor goes away, etc. I'm hoping I could play once or twice in June or July.

My son sounded a little better today too, so that's an encouragement. I think if he did a little bit every day he could probably have an octave by the end of summer and maybe some more basic patterns. He has an overbite and is heading towards the awkward phase (now in late 4th grade--would probably get braces in 6th or 7th).
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything's going along fairly well. I've been playing on different mouthpieces. I got the JK 3b recently, which is both bigger diameter, wider rim, and maybe deeper cup. A generic 1.5 felt too big, but I think because the rim is wider/flatter, this feels pretty good. I've also been playing around some with my flugabone monstrosity and it probably is helping with mouthpiece awareness.

So... I'm working on goals to have. Some I've already made progress:
-Continuing mp search and finding what I like/what works.
-Have improved transposition and can transpose up to C on my Bb for many hymns. I think if really performing, I'd want to at least pencil the notes in above just to help out.
-Feel like I can play most hymns now with no problem.

My next dilemma is how to keep improving. Several ideas:
-I need to work on routine consistency. I'm considering the Arban duets since there's fun and someone has them on youtube.
-I saw some State community bands require an audition piece. This is a ways off, but I've wondered if there's something in Arban's or elsewhere that I could start working on. What would be a piece I could work away on for several months that's not super challenging?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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