English handmade trumpets?

richarddownunder · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:58 am Post subject: English handmade trumpets?

Hi Folk - my first post here.

I've been considering getting back into band playing after quite a break. I play a Yamaha C in a small group ragularly but havent played Bb for years. My 45 year-old old Boosey and Hawkes Bb has really done its dash so I'm looking to upgrade. Anyway, long story slightly shorter, I've tried a few trumpets and wondered about a Yamaha Xeno. Then I tried a JP Taylor (obviously a different brighter sound to the Xeno and a bit cheaper) which led me (the Taylor bit) to look online at English handmade trumpets. I came accross several including Will Spencer. What surprised me, was that the price for what seems to be a hand-made instrument isn't that much more than a mass-produced Xeno or Strad.

So, finally, my (possibly naive) question is, what is the advantage of bying a mass-produced instrument (e.g. a Xeno) over, say, a Will Spencer Bb (I think the Taylor instruments might be a bit higher price and probably out of my budget). Does anyone here play a Will Spencer trumpet and how do they compare...he seems to have a good reputation. There is also the Eclipse range at 2500 pounds which look nice on their web site.

One other consideration is that I live at the bottom of the globe so trying out the trumpet at the top of the globe isn't so easy.

Thanks
Richard

trumpet56 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 623

Welcome to Trumpet Herald Richard. Depending where you live I would suggest KBB in Auckland or Christchurh and Vanguard Orchestral in Wellington . These shops have range of different brands to try. Good luck.

kehaulani · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject:

If hand made (whatever that is) over production instruments would be that much better wouldn't you think most professionals would play them? They don't.
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richarddownunder · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:22 pm Post subject:

richarddownunder · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:24 pm Post subject:

richarddownunder · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:23 pm Post subject:

Rapier232 · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:21 pm Post subject:

I think that the smaller independent trumpet makers, like Taylor, Eclipse, Will Spenser, Flip Oakes etc. build their reputations by taking more pride, time and care in the manufacture of each instrument. I’ve owned Taylor, Eclipse and Flip Oakes and they have all been well made and excellent trumpets. Smith-Watkins is another small company that make excellent instruments that are highly regarded.
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TKSop · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:06 am Post subject:

Part of it is customisation, part is personal taste...

(Leaving aside the different priorities and preferences of professionals in different fields)

To some extent, a lot of pro's (atleast those I've known) seem more focused on getting the job (and getting it done) than on what their absolute favourite is - a perfectly respectable position to take, when your livelihood depends on it, but a different set of priorities from the hobbyist player (whether relative beginner or similar standard to many pro's).
Where you or I would (perfectly respectably) put our personal enjoyment, our personal sound preference, our personal comfort (Etc.) towards the top of our lists, these won't be necessarily be priorities for the pro.

My absolute favourite trumpet I've ever played is the Eclipse 4T/LYL Celeste - tight leadpipe, large lightweight yellow bell... Response is superb, feel in all registers is awesome and tone quality at all dynamics sits exactly where I want it to - but would an orchestral pro choose it? I don't know, it depends how confident they are that it'll fit in "at work" and how willing they are to buck the trends.

JoeLoeffler · Veteran Member Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 243

When people mention “professionals”, they rarely describe them more specifically. This is unfortunate because it has a great bearing on what types of instruments they choose and why they do so. Are you referring to top-level orchestral players, small-group Jazz soloists, classical soloists, commercial/studio players, elites in the brass band world, big band lead players, a working classical freelancer? Are you speaking of them generally, or their work in a specific situation? A player in an orchestral situation is expected to produce an end product (sound, intonation, response, flexibility and so many other qualities) with a different level of refinement (in order to do their job is the ensemble) than a small-group Jazz soloist. Most professionals understand how to select the best tool for “their job” and own a number of instruments that allow them the best options for their playing situations.

richarddownunder · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:05 am Post subject:

Hi Folk

thank you for your replies. The comment on the Eclipse seems to back up other comments - they seem to be amongst the best. I'm certainly not a pro - I enjoy playing and if I'm getting back into it after a break I'd like to play an instrument I don't have to fight. I'm sure all the better quality models would be fine but I'll look into the possibility of an Eclipse since they get consistently excellent reviews. The interchangeable leadpipe on the CLS model does give some flexibility when buying un-tested.

Thanks

Richard

Qnaza · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 336

I have had a lot of experience with Will Spencer modifying my horn, not bought one from him but played his and they are crackers. His personal service is outstanding and his humility combined with his playing ability and skills in the workshop make him amazingly good at what he does.

As for the comment about pros not playing handmade instruments, read Will Spencer's testimonials here:

http://www.willspencer.org/testimonials.php

There are more than a few gigging pros there. He's well worth a visit!

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

wee steve · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:26 pm Post subject:

Will spencer is considered one of the best techs in the business. I rung him once and he gave me great advice free of charge which resulted in him losing business as he didn’t need to fix my Bach. What can I say about Eclipse. I own the Medium Yellow Celeste CLS, I am absolutely over the moon with it, it’s my second eclipse and will be the last horn I ever buy (hopefullly at 34 you never know). If I ever do have to replace it then it will need to be another Eclipse, they are just simply amazing, every time I pick it up I feel lucky, it feels great, it sounds great, it projects, it’s bang in tune. They are AMAZING. Smith and Watkins and Taylor are incredibly well built too. I could never go back to an off the shelf horn again.
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Eclipse Celeste MY 2023
B & S Challenger flugelhorn

Previous horns:
Eclipse Celeste CLS MY
Eclipse LY (rear tuned)
Bach ML37
B & S Challenger ii

richarddownunder · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:26 pm Post subject:

wee steve · Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:35 pm Post subject:

Two of the absolute best in the business, Will Spencer and Leigh Mckinney. For my money it has to be Eclipse and I say that not just as a player but because of the 20 years development of the Celeste range of Eclipse BB trumpets. A lot of top UK pros are using them all over the west end shows. The CLS system is awesome and the Eclipse bells are lazer welded. The hand finishing leigh does is also the best in the business. A lot of guys take their horns to Will to be repaired but I am not sure how many leave them there and come out with his horns. When I was at eclipse people had traded in Bach’s, Shilkes, Taylor’s, Smith Watkins, Adams and they are all great brands. Having said that I’m sure that anything Will makes would sound great.
_________________
Eclipse Celeste MY 2023
B & S Challenger flugelhorn

Previous horns:
Eclipse Celeste CLS MY
Eclipse LY (rear tuned)
Bach ML37
B & S Challenger ii

EBjazz · Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:50 am Post subject:

Are there machines that actually build trumpets? I've never seen that. The big difference is really production models vs. special orders. Also a company's quality control is important. Hopefully they can catch the dogs before they send them out.

Eb
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Rod Haney · Heavyweight Member Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937

I own 2 Eclipse trumpets. I've played over 200 of the hi end best of brand trumpets at shows and music stores in the last 3 years and owned and sold over 40, and both of the Eclipse horns I have are noticeably better to me than any of the others! The custom horn I ordered with the leadpipe system and solid silver bell is incredibly better than any other horn I've ever played, I don't think it's possible to make a horn that does more. And Leigh is great to work with and will do anything for his customers. They aren't cheap but they are in my opinion the best with any combination of materials and sound you want.
Rod

richarddownunder · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:53 am Post subject:

snichols · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:20 pm Post subject:

At one point in the past year, when I was still taking auditions, I had the opportunity to try a number of top-line pro horns side by side. I tried the Yamaha 9335 NY and Chicago, the Yamaha 8335, Schilke S22, Bach Artisan, a couple of Shires, and a Spencer UK. Of the "mass produced" models, the 8335 was my favorite. Nice middle-of-the-road sound (ie. good balance of brilliance and core), slotted the way I liked, even intonation... But the Spencer was my overall favorite. It had the awesome slotting and intonation of the Yamaha, but had this fantastic rich, buttery, thick (yet still brilliant) sound. I loved it, and if money wasn't an object I'd buy one of those. Not that they're expensive - I think they're actually pretty reasonably priced - I'm just poor.

Shipham_Player · Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:24 am Post subject:

I’ve recently started playing an Eclipse (older model with tuning slide near the bell) after quite a Safari over the last 18 months including an Olds Recording, Martin Committee, Taylor (both the hybrid JP one and full Chicago) and a vintage Selmer Paris.

I have to say the Eclipse is the best trumpet I’ve ever played by a mile - it’s perfectly in tune - the tuning slide doesn’t need adjusting at all and it has a fabulous tone - deep but sweet at the same time.

Easiest horn I’ve ever played -very responsive to different mouthpieces - I have a Horntrader Jazz that’s really deep and it sounds superb with that but changes character completely with a shallower piece.

I’d thoroughly recommend checking one out - I got mine second hand for a reasonable price and can’t see myself changing it for a long time, if ever.
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