C Trumpets and Mouthpieces

cgaiii · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:45 am Post subject: C Trumpets and Mouthpieces

I have been reading the C trumpet mouthpiece threads with interest. I thought of commenting on one of those threads but then decided this is another discussion. Sorry for any redundancy. This is half mouthpiece and half trumpet.
One thing that does not come up in discussions of whether one can use the same mouthpiece with a Bb and C is whether the trumpets are closely matched in specs.
It would stand to reason that if you have a tight playing Bb and an open C, the mouthpieces would be different.
I would like to "hear" opinions on whether your C and Bb horns are closely matched, whether you think this matching is important, and how it affects your choice of mouthpiece.
Looking forward to the discussion.
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Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales

Rompson · Regular Member Joined: 04 May 2013 Posts: 86

Specs never tell the whole story. My .459 bore D trumpet plays just as open as my .453 bore Bb. Why? It is shorter. My piccolo is the tightest feeling of all of my horns.

Thats is why you rarely see Bb and C trumpets with matched specs. They play differently just because they are in a different key, and often play even more differently because of what the players want to get out of them.

If you take a look at a Bach 229 or 239 bell, you will see that it is much smaller in the throat than a 37 or 43 bell. I tend to think of the standard 229/239 large bore C trumpet like the standard Bach large bore Bb trumpet: Larger bore combined with a tighter bell for a more moderate experience. Still, most C trumpet players are looking for a trumpet with good accuracy but the power to project and fill an hall unamplified, so they play with a more open mouthpiece. If you don't need to do that, you can probably use a mouthpiece that is like what you use on your regular Bb trumpet.

cgaiii · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:00 pm Post subject:

Perhaps I should have said playing characteristics instead of specs.
But, yes, the idea of different purposes for the two horns complicates the mouthpiece equation. Thanks for the insight.
_________________
Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales

Rompson · Regular Member Joined: 04 May 2013 Posts: 86

Ah I see what you mean about feel vs specs.

FWIW I tend to use the same mouthpiece on my Bb and C whenever possible. The mouthpiece is a 1 1/4c with a 24 throat and Curry 2 (essentialy a Bach 7) backbore. My Bb is a M Bore 38 bell and my C is a L bore 229 bell. My mouthpiece opens up the front of my slightly tighter Bb but still gives me the sound and feel I prefer for most things I use a C trumpet, even thought my C is already slightly more open feeling.

Tpt_Guy · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:59 pm Post subject:

I don't use the same mouthpiece for both B flat and C trumpets. They aren't the same instrument and, regardless that they are both trumpets, have different design considerations.

Even Charlier recognized this:

"To use the same mouthpiece to play all the instruments (flugel horn, cornet, trumpets in F or C) with a mouthpiece for trumpet in B-flat, for example, is a great error. The result is that the harmonic resonance is thrown out of equilibrium because of the irregularities caused by disproportional tubing."

Taken from the ITG Journal supplement, May 1979, which can be found here: http://trumpetguild.org/journal-supplements .

In my own opinion and experience, using a mouthpiece that plays acceptably on both instruments means it won't play optimally on either one.
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-Tom Hall-

"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee

Nonsense Eliminator · Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:00 am Post subject:

I think you would find that a lot of people do, in fact, use the same mouthpiece (or perhaps the same mouthpiece with a different throat or backbore) on C and B flat trumpets. And E flat trumpets. And all their other B flat and C trumpets. You are never going to make them all blow exactly the same, so at a certain point obsessing over getting exactly the right match is much less efficient than just picking something and learning to play it.
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Richard Sandals
NBO

Jerry · Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:00 am Post subject:

John Mohan · Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:07 am Post subject:

Tpt_Guy · Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:45 pm Post subject:

nieuwguyski · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:23 am Post subject:

cbtj51 · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:44 am Post subject:

Tpt_Guy · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:55 am Post subject:

Andy Del · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:05 pm Post subject:

Most players seem to gather a set of trumpets which play in a similar way. A good friend of mine has really nice trumpets, but they are all quite... tight. He also thinks all my horns are very open and he falls into them.

And we are both right. (gasp! trumpet players agree!)

As we learned to play, we moved towards what worked for us (or our teachers) and learned to play THOSE horns, just like Richard says.

Anyhow, the long and short of it is I sound like me on my gear, but not on his. I use very similar cup/rim mouthpieces, only the throat and backbores change. They make my instruments work well, I think. His Toshi mouthpieces make him sound fantastic and then some.

On a side note: got to play a Monette Prana 3 Bb trumpet yesterday. Even had the right sized Monette mpc in it for me!

This friend's comment was that most players can't make it work at all. I just sound like me... (Sorry Dave, I'll not be buying one, just sticking to my Kanstul)

cheers

Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes...