• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Best Bang for the Buck?


Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
neobri
New Member


Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:37 pm    Post subject: Best Bang for the Buck? Reply with quote

Hello, Heralders.

I'm primarily a trombonist. I'm looking for a professional-level used Bb trumpet. I'm looking for the best bang for the buck. For whatever reason, the horn that comes to mind most is the B&S Challenger I or II (probably the II).

Any other opinions out there? I am a professional trombonist, but I feel like if I were to really dedicate some quality time on trumpet, I'd be good enough to gig with it.

Suggestions? Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trumpethead
Veteran Member


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 444
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a myriad of good choices...

I just bought a Yamaha 3335S trumpet that plays incredibly well for me.
In fact, way better then several other horns I tried at the same time worth thousands more, including a Bach Strad etc...

Great horn for a cheap price.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
giakara
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Jul 2003
Posts: 3826
Location: Greece

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getzen eterna large bore.

Regards
_________________
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8964
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Price range?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cheiden
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8910
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New, Kanstul 700 or 900 are great for the money. B&S are also good horns though likely more costly than the Kanstul.

Otherwise, it's hard to beat a good used Bach or Yamaha pro horn.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theslawdawg
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 843
Location: Waikiki, Hawaii

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

giakara wrote:
Getzen eterna large bore.

Regards


+1!
_________________
My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ed Kennedy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theslawdawg wrote:
giakara wrote:
Getzen eterna large bore.

Regards


+1!
and +2 and the Severinson ML (my personal choice) ain't bad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
plp
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 7023
Location: South Alabama

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard to go wrong with Kanstul, Yamaha or Getzen.

I play vintage Conn trumpets, but you sort of have to know a lot about their history to be able to sort out the wheat from the chaff. So I would not recommend them, they made some great ones, and some spotty ones. Same with Olds.

My backup trumpet for gigs is a Besson 609, AKA Kanstul 700, as good as my 1969 Conn 60-B. Kanstul builds some really nice horns, especially their Chicago series, as close to a Benge as modern production allows.

However, every Getzen I ever played, whether pro or student line, was a solid horn. Same with Yamaha, play a base 2310 flugel as my one and only, and it was marketed as a student horn. I bought it, played it, and in over 12 years have never felt the need to play another.

I have been through probably 120 trumpets and cornets, for a sure thing the 3 I listed above are your best bets.

I have never even seen a B&S, so know nothing about them. They may be great or they may be junk, just have nothing as a point of reference about them.
_________________
Since all other motives—fame, money, power, even honor—are thrown out the window the moment I pick up that instrument..... I play because I love doing it, even when the results are disappointing. In short, I do it to do it.” Wayne Booth
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address MSN Messenger
Robert P
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2578

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a silver plated Besson 1000 for under $150 on Ebay that plays really nice. I had tried one at a local music store and liked it and kept an eye out on Ebay. Supposedly all the Bessons are decent but the 1000 is the only one I have personal experience with. Supposedly a student beater but I wouldn't have any problem playing a gig with it.
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C

Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo

Chinese Flugel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
epoustoufle
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 Nov 2015
Posts: 232
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my humble opinion... you won't be able to tell the difference between a $100 trumpet and a $3000 trumpet. Get something shiny that looks good on stage and spend the left over money finding a mouthpiece that you can live with.

From what I read, trombonists play with a lot more volume of air (less resistance) whereas you are going to find the mouthpiece excruciatingly tiny and resistant. I would put 90% of your attention here - maybe something in the Schilke 20 range - rather than the horn. Forget notes above the staff, you'll go crazy and that's specialist territory. Plus noone but trumpeters care
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Swartz
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 7769
Location: Des Moines, IA area

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Well, I happen to play with 3 trombonists who are outstanding musicians... I also used to play a lot of trombone, baritone and tuba on a daily basis.)

Are you looking at new trumpets? At this point, probably any pro model that's in your price range as a new horn would do.

Used? I'll always recommend a Bach 180/37 ML. Silver plated. (And I don't play one...) You'll get a lot of crap around here about consistency, quality, and other junk you'd hear from someone recommending a car, pizza joint, beer, etc. Fact is, if you have one, bought it right, then decide you'd rather get a baritone (excuse me- euphonium) or something else, you're old lady dumps you, you cna't pay the rent, need money for that red head next to you at the bar, etc., you'll be able to unload (resell) the Bach a lot easier and faster than anything else. If someone disagrees, make sure you contract them to purchase your Kanstul/Getzen/wtf ever since they recommended it. I'd sign on for your Bach, bet the others won't... Good luck.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
kevin_soda
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 558
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would you invest in an instrument based on how fast you could turn it around in an emergency? That’s just bizarre. I would recommend an Olds Ambassodor or almost any Yamaha built in the last 20 years. If you’re looking for something more high end you could go B&S but there’s a lot at that price point.
_________________
Kevin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kevin_soda
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 558
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There’s a Besson 800 in the Marketplace... looks a good bet.
_________________
Kevin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
razeontherock
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10609
Location: The land of GR and Getzen

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, the variety of responses is ... dizzying. About the only thing stated I'd agree with is to devote a lot more care to mouthpiece choice than you'd expect. The smaller size makes it more critical to get a good fit, etc.

I don't have a cheap Bb to sell, and lots of us around here have multiple Bb's. This should tell the OP that it is not at all easy to find a Bb to love! I would encourage the OP to seriously consider cornet, and to exhaust the reasons why he couldn't gig on cornet anywhere he's thinking of using a trumpet. It's easy to find a cornet to love! Cheap, even. Just as easy to play above the staff, easier to execute technical passages.

The only thing a cornet won't do as well as a trumpet is commercial type playing, or covering the lead chair. Or if you need to blend/ keep up with a section of trumpets. In which case a Bach or clone is indicated, most of the time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Craig Swartz
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 7769
Location: Des Moines, IA area

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevin_soda wrote:
Why would you invest in an instrument based on how fast you could turn it around in an emergency? That’s just bizarre. I would recommend an Olds Ambassodor or almost any Yamaha built in the last 20 years. If you’re looking for something more high end you could go B&S but there’s a lot at that price point.
Well, I was assuming that the stats on a 180/37 as per popularity among playing pros pretty much speak for themselves without having to rearticulate them in the thread. The reason for going with the "easy to unload" angle is that if anyone has ever taught or played among hundreds, if not thousands of players with varying proficiencies that "had to have" a pro model trumpet, the vast majority of those instruments are never used professionally and eventually the majority of these "players" move on, as in "putting the horn down for good".

Of course it's always fun to spend someone else's money.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Jerry
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2157
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The B&S Challenger horns are good horns. However, I don't know what they are going for used, so it's hard for me to say if it's a good bang-for-the-buck.

A variation on the B&S Challenger is the Sonare 800. That's essentially a B&S Challenger II with a Blackburn leadpipe. They are no longer being made. That is a candidate for good bang-for-the-buck professional level horn.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kevin_soda
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 558
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig Swartz wrote:
kevin_soda wrote:
Why would you invest in an instrument based on how fast you could turn it around in an emergency? That’s just bizarre. I would recommend an Olds Ambassodor or almost any Yamaha built in the last 20 years. If you’re looking for something more high end you could go B&S but there’s a lot at that price point.
Well, I was assuming that the stats on a 180/37 as per popularity among playing pros pretty much speak for themselves without having to rearticulate them in the thread. The reason for going with the "easy to unload" angle is that if anyone has ever taught or played among hundreds, if not thousands of players with varying proficiencies that "had to have" a pro model trumpet, the vast majority of those instruments are never used professionally and eventually the majority of these "players" move on, as in "putting the horn down for good".

Of course it's always fun to spend someone else's money.


I hear you making some pretty strong assumptions that the OP won't be successful in their endeavor so they should just buy something marketable so they won't have trouble selling it when they eventually give up. I'm disappointed that this thread hasn't been more supportive.

In my experience with doubling on trombone (since trumpet is my primary instrument) using a mouthpiece that's on the larger side all around can be beneficial but the most important thing seems to be just being comfortable changing gears and not overblowing on either horn. Playing with a neutral embouchure helps. The more time I spend on trombone at any given time, the longer it takes for me to put my trumpet hat back on but it's nothing long tones can't fix.

I also think it's hard to be too selective when you're unfamiliar with the instrument in general. There will be a learning curve regardless of which horn you end up with.
_________________
Kevin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Swartz
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 7769
Location: Des Moines, IA area

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevin_soda wrote:
Craig Swartz wrote:
kevin_soda wrote:
Why would you invest in an instrument based on how fast you could turn it around in an emergency? That’s just bizarre. I would recommend an Olds Ambassodor or almost any Yamaha built in the last 20 years. If you’re looking for something more high end you could go B&S but there’s a lot at that price point.
Well, I was assuming that the stats on a 180/37 as per popularity among playing pros pretty much speak for themselves without having to rearticulate them in the thread. The reason for going with the "easy to unload" angle is that if anyone has ever taught or played among hundreds, if not thousands of players with varying proficiencies that "had to have" a pro model trumpet, the vast majority of those instruments are never used professionally and eventually the majority of these "players" move on, as in "putting the horn down for good".

Of course it's always fun to spend someone else's money.


I hear you making some pretty strong assumptions that the OP won't be successful in their endeavor so they should just buy something marketable so they won't have trouble selling it when they eventually give up. I'm disappointed that this thread hasn't been more supportive.

In my experience with doubling on trombone (since trumpet is my primary instrument) using a mouthpiece that's on the larger side all around can be beneficial but the most important thing seems to be just being comfortable changing gears and not overblowing on either horn. Playing with a neutral embouchure helps. The more time I spend on trombone at any given time, the longer it takes for me to put my trumpet hat back on but it's nothing long tones can't fix.

I also think it's hard to be too selective when you're unfamiliar with the instrument in general. There will be a learning curve regardless of which horn you end up with.
You're really trying to tie my statements to this individual, obviously, you are trying to single out statements I've made. Clearly my comments concerning dropping out/moving on are general and directed at the entire trumpet, and actually, instrumental music "world", from 8 yr olds to very mature adults. If you have some stats that show that the majority of people starting out on any musical instrument actually are still playing after 3 years, post and document them.

I did quite a bit of playing on trombone, tuba, horn, as well as woodwinds over the past 45 years or so. I always found that playing the larger instruments took on an entirely different action in both oral cavity and how one blows at it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
HERMOKIWI
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2578

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In terms of "biggest bang for the buck" it would be hard to beat a vintage Olds Ambassador as long as it's in good condition. They are comparatively inexpensive and back in the day (certainly pre-1965) Olds had only one standard of quality for every horn regardless of model: High.
_________________
HERMOKIWI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
neobri
New Member


Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for the recommendations!

A few quick answers to some of the questions brought up above:

*I am looking used, as I don't need to buy new.

*I'm not sure I want a large-bore horn or not. I know how it all correlates on trombone, but still a bit unsure on trumpet.

*As for a mouthpiece, I'm playing something similar to a Bach 1C, but a bit shallower. Seems fine so far.

Maybe a bit more backstory would help. I'm formerly a trombonist with one of the DC Military bands. I have played trumpet before, too, just not professionally. When things are working, I can play reliably up to around a high C-E, and sometimes up to a double C. So I understand my mechanics reasonably well and know how to work on that to make things stronger, more reliable, and more consistent.

Someone said above that the amount of air a low brass player uses is typically much greater, and that is true. That's one of the big adjustments I'm working on.

And I don't think the thread has been particularly unsupportive - but I also understand it's easy to make assumptions because it could be a total beginner on the other end of the line. Rest assured that I know what I know and am endeavoring to learn what I don't. So - back to horns...

The suggestions above are many and varied. I'm borrowing a late 80s 37 at the moment - and it feels very good and solid. I'm surprised at how smooth and dark it is. I thought I wanted something like a 72, but this 37 has started to change my mind. The reason I am strongly considering a B&S is that they're supposed to be highly faithful clones, just assembled better, and so ostensibly more consistent.

I do like Bach trombones, when they're good.

Thanks again for all of the comments and suggestions - I do appreciate each one of you spending your time to chime in and help educate me.

PS - I own two cornets already - so I don't need another one!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group