Professionals Playing Student Flugelhorns?

[dsmowersmusic]

Hi, I’m a college student who is starting professional gigs and work outside of the educational scene. I’ve heard from one of my professors and several other people that if I plan on getting a Flugelhorn (which I probably should at some point) that it might be worth it to just go for a student model if I’m not going to be using it all that often. I’ve been researching the Allora AAFG-103F which normally goes for $499 but is currently on sale for $399. Does anyone have any positive or negative experience with this horn or with student horns in general?

Dennis

[benlewis]

Ryan Anthony used to use a Yamaha student model flugel and. of course, sounded great. I have another friend who plays a Blessing flugel.

However, I'd strongly encourage you to consider the Trent Austin doublers' model. I own one and use it more for shows than my Yamaha YFL-631. It plays 99% as well and I'm not worried about banging it up. Down the road, you may want to purchase a Yamaha pipe; that improves the plying even more.

I'm very happy with the ACB flugel and Trent and his employees are very helpful.

HTH

Ben

[cheiden]

I recall liking the Yamaha student flugel quite a lot. Picking up one of those used might get you a perfectly acceptable horn for minimal cash. If you really prefer buying new then the ABC or Dillon horns get consistently good reviews.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[trpthrld]

I get asked that question quite often. My opinion is you should buy the best instrument that you can afford. And by "best" I mean one that plays in tune, where all the mechanics are in full working order, and that gets a good sound with easy response.

In other words, don't buy a horn simply because you "need one" that plays like crap.

Remember that you'll not only be working with other musicians who you'll then have to blend with, but also that anyone who hears you play will remember if you sounded good (like "let's hire him again") or sounded bad.

For many years, I was Principal/Lead/Featured Solo Trumpet on the Crystal Cathedral's internationally broadcast "Hour of Power" TV show. The call was always trumpet & flugel. There were 3 of us in the section. There was an occasional sub who, because the call required flugel, bought the worst-playing piece of junk you could imagine. He said "I'm an orchestral musician, and we don't need flugels. I don't care if it plays or not."

And he played it like he didn't care, either.

Needless to say, whenever I heard he might be on the next show, I did everything I could to get someone else in the section instead.

The OP is fortunate in that these days there is a wide selection of quality used flugels at affordable prices, and as has been mentioned, new horns like Trent's doublers model (well under $1000).

Remember - no one who hears you (and especially if they're paying you to play) will keep in their mind that you couldn't afford a better horn. All they'll really remember is if you sounded good or sounded bad.
_________________
Tim Wendt

www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be

[Matthew Anklan]

I’m with Tim on this...get the best you can afford. I’m a pro player and play Flugel often, but I don’t have time to practice the flugelhorn most days. I had Fred Powell make me a flugel that is really superb, and does not require much thought to play. The intonation is predictable, and the sound is rich and full. No mechanical issues. It’s nice not having to worry about it!

It’s off topic a bit, but the same goes for my Piccolo Trumpet. Got the best I could afford - great, even scale, and excellent sound. Solid build quality.
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Matthew Anklan
www.matthewanklan.com
Patrick Mouthpieces Artist

[tptjazzboy28]

[kehaulani]

Depends upon what you want to use it for. I used one mainly to double occasionally in big band and my Jupiter works just fine for that.

Now, if I were to use it as a featured, professional soloist instrument, I would up the price/quality/sound. But I don't.

A word of advice, and it might not happen here so apologies, but too often one will get recommendations by people who respond as if they play lead , or principal, at a professional level and they do not. Try to dispassionately weigh the information.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[jhahntpt]

I bought an ACB Doubler's flugelhorn in college. It is definitely a serviceable instrument for someone that doesn't play flugelhorn a lot. It sounds good, plays well in tune, and blends very well with Yamaha and other smaller bell flugelhorns. You could do a hell of a lot worse than this flugel.

That said, the difference from that and my Yamaha 6310z is massive. The tone is richer, the flexibility is incredible, the fit and finish is near perfect. It was well worth the cost. That cost? I bought it used though the market place here for $900 maybe two years ago. You can find some great deals out there if you look and are willing to pull the trigger.

I have a friend looking to buy a "cheap flugel" (his words) I like to remind him that what he's looking to buy isn't a consumable item and if you buy smart you'll be able to get back the money you spend or a great portion of it. It's also an investment that you're making into your budding professional career I could 100% get my $900 back if I sold the flugel today. If I bought it new for $2k+ then I would be happy to get half.
_________________
Bb: Yamaha 9335NY Gen3
Bb: Yamaha 8310Z
C: Shires 4S/W1B
Piccolo: Yamaha 9830
Flugel: Yamaha 8315G
Cornet: York Eminence

[trpthrld]

Another thing to keep in mind is unless the horn fits the parameters of plays in tune, everything works etc., is that when you're playing it, you'll be struggling to make the horn work, and / or wondering "geez...when will a valve hang up on me?"

All of that takes concentration away from you doing the job you were hired for.

I completely understand budget, and I feel for ya. Take your time searching - you'll find a solid horn that fits what you can afford.
_________________
Tim Wendt

www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be

[Bach-aha]

+1 for everything Tim said and some of the others. I tell my students and have subscribed to the "Don't buy it until you need it" approach to equipment with the caveat of "..but when you do have to buy it, buy the very best that you can afford."

I'm more of an "orchestral/band/quintet player" But I do a fair amount of playing in broadway style pits and occasionally sub with some big bands in the area. It is totally worth it to take your time, and do the research and try to find the best horn you can for the price.

I personally have a Yamaha 6310z that does the job for me. I was fortunate enough to scour around and find one used that was practically brand new. It was bought to play a little and noodle around and it was in a closet. So I got a brand new $2500 flugel for $1000 bucks. Would I have preferred maybe a yamaha 631 or 731, perhaps...most people seem to have those so it would blend well in a section (like Tim said) but for the price I couldn't pass it up.

So continue to do your search. Worth buying a good Yamaha or Getzen or any other reputable brand. Heard good things about the ACB horns but haven't gotten any face time with them. But I would advise you to wait to buy one of those horns over the cheaper ones if you can. I'm sure you can ask around and borrow someones in a pinch for a gig or something like that. But with equipment, you get what you pay for, and it's worth the wait.

[Don Herman rev2]

[shofarguy]

Tim Wendt is right.

For years, I was a general contractor in California. I learned that my tools were my ability to earn a living. They are there to maximize my productivity and my product. I bought the best tools. Not what someone else said were the best tools, but the best tools in my hands.

I used to tell my customers, "In 6 months, if you like what you bought, you won't remember or care how much you paid. But, if you didn't get what you wanted, no matter how much you thought you were saving, you'll never forget how much money you wasted."

Buy the best instrument.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[Robert P]

I've had two Chinese cheapies, the same basic sub-$300 model that the ACB Doublers are tweaked versions of. I had no complaints about them as they came from the factory. I kept one and sold the other for about double what I paid for it.

None of the stories I heard about the valves proved to be true with horns I got. You do need to use the trigger for intonation but the sound is real decent.
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Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C

Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo

Chinese Flugel

[TKSop]

[zaferis]

If you're not going to spend the money on a pro horn, stay away from the student horns.. You'll be way better off with an ACB Doubler.. very serviceable horns that Trent has done a masterful job of upscaling.

Otherwise my suggestion would be to same your money and buy pro horn: Yamaha 631/731, Kanstul, Bach, Benge, Jupiter, XO etc...
(BTW I'm confident Austin Brass has several to choose from)

With either direction, play them before you buy or have a return option.. Flugels can be squirrelly.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[Turkle]

I play a Yamaha student model from the '70s or early 80's. Something like that. It plays like a dream - professionals with flugelhorns that cost an order of magnitude more than mine have told me that mine plays better than theirs.

Of course, mine has had a complete valve rebuild, PVA, third slide reversed and finger ring installed, 1st valve thumb hook installed, stripped to raw brass, etc. etc....

So I think it's likely that mine plays so well because it's had the blowtorch put to it so many times! Still, I bought it for $400 with all the above work done, and it just plain sings.

I am not writing the above in order to recommend a student flugel. All I'm saying is you can get lucky sometimes. Good luck!
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Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.

[nieuwguyski]

I play regularly with a guy who loves to solo on flugelhorn. He could afford to play nearly any flugelhorn you could name (and played a new Schilke for about six months), but he chooses to play a Dillon Rose-Brass flugel -- a Chinese horn that Dillon sells for $475. Now, he went to Dillon Music in person, tried out three of the horns, and left with the only one he liked, so keep that in mind.
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J. Notso Nieuwguyski

[cheiden]

Stock student Yamaha flugels play pretty darn well too. They may not sound quite as lush but build quality is high (typical Yamaha), they're durable (typical sturdy student-model construction), and intonation and playing ease are good and reliable. I reiterate that this would be a good option, particularly if you can score a good used one.

By the good press alone, I'd probably prefer a new Dillon or ABC if that's an option.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[Bill Blackwell]

[theslawdawg]