• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

6 notes question?


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Carmine Caruso
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Jeptrumpet
New Member


Joined: 01 May 2017
Posts: 10
Location: Houston, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:47 pm    Post subject: 6 notes question? Reply with quote

Hello,

I have been doing the 6 notes exercise for about 2 weeks now, and I was wondering what I'm supposed to be feeling chop-wise while doing the exercise.

Right now, I feel the burn on the lips inside the mouthpiece cup, not on my corners, around "B" the second time without taking the horn off my face.

Does this mean im using too much pressure? I also am trying to fix my corners pulling back for higher notes so I'm mainly focused on that as well during this exercise.

Also, how long should I stay on 6 notes before moving on?

Thank you!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JoseLindE4
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 546

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 6 notes question? Reply with quote

Jeptrumpet wrote:
Does this mean im using too much pressure?

It means you need to focus more intensely on time.

Quote:
I also am trying to fix my corners pulling back for higher notes so I'm mainly focused on that as well during this exercise.

I can't imagine actually following the rules and having the mental bandwidth to think about stuff like this.

Quote:
Also, how long should I stay on 6 notes before moving on?

You should stop playing the 6 notes at your funeral.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator


Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 5486
Location: Bloomington Indiana

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: 6 notes question? Reply with quote

Jeptrumpet wrote:
Hello,

I have been doing the 6 notes exercise for about 2 weeks now, and I was wondering what I'm supposed to be feeling chop-wise while doing the exercise.


Nothing in particular. Just do the exercise. Most importantly...Follow the Four Rules and don't think of anything else!

Quote:
Does this mean im using too much pressure?


As far as this calisthenic practice is concerned, there is no such thing as too much pressure. Ignore this thinking and follow the Four Rules.

Quote:
I also am trying to fix my corners pulling back for higher notes so I'm mainly focused on that as well during this exercise.


Do not think this way. Let your body do whatever it does. Follow the Four Rules.

Quote:
Also, how long should I stay on 6 notes before moving on?


Do you mean in a single day? Do one internal repeat. Rest a bit and then go on to practicing something else. I would do the exercise at least once a day, and no more than once for every hour of other types of playing you do. If you practice 4 hours a day, do the exercise one to four times per day (with at least 20-30 minutes between repetitions). Generally, once a day is enough.

Do this exercise every day for the rest of your life.

Reread all of the Getting Started threads that are stickies in this forum.
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Professor of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops since 1976
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
gstump
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 836

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Original Caruso manuscript 1968


_________________
Schilke B5
Couesnon Flug (1967)
Funk Brothers Horn Section/Caruso Student
Trumpet Stand
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
theslawdawg
Veteran Member


Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 240
Location: Panama City Beach, FL

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gstump wrote:
Original Caruso manuscript 1968



Awesome!
_________________
Beginner Trumpet Player, 35 years and counting
20+ Year, Active Duty, Navy Officer
"I'm no professional trumpet player, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
bach_again
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 2235
Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gstump wrote:
Original Caruso manuscript 1968



Hi, Gordon! Very cool image. Iím presuming T T B stands for tongue tongue breath. Can you verify? I was under the impression this was to be played B T T or B S T according to Mark Zauss - the S being a shove of air. Would love to know your take.

Best,
Mike
_________________
Chase's Get it On fanfare:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tkU6CT8e64
Martin Handcraft Imperial (1936):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoDGp4AtUIQ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
gstump
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 836

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bach_again wrote:

Hi, Gordon! Very cool image. Iím presuming T T B stands for tongue tongue breath. Can you verify? I was under the impression this was to be played B T T or B S T according to Mark Zauss - the S being a shove of air. Would love to know your take.
Best,
Mike

Hey Mike,
Back in '68 this is what Mr. Caruso gave me. It is indeed Ta-Ta-Ha.
Back in those days I could not hit water if I fell out of a boat. I feel Mr. Caruso wanted to start with the familiar. I have done it this way every time I warm up for 50 Years!

Cheers,

Gordon
_________________
Schilke B5
Couesnon Flug (1967)
Funk Brothers Horn Section/Caruso Student
Trumpet Stand
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dstpt
Veteran Member


Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 386

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gstump wrote:
Original Caruso manuscript 1968



Shouldn't the articulation be BTT for every pitch? I'm confused.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gstump
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 836

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you do some searches of the 6 notes on this forum you will see this discussed at length. Carmine Caruso was not a cookie cutter teacher. Respectfully, this manuscript was written by Mr. Caruso.

Cheers,

Gordon Stump
_________________
Schilke B5
Couesnon Flug (1967)
Funk Brothers Horn Section/Caruso Student
Trumpet Stand
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dstpt
Veteran Member


Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 386

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gstump wrote:
If you do some searches of the 6 notes on this forum you will see this discussed at length. Carmine Caruso was not a cookie cutter teacher. Respectfully, this manuscript was written by Mr. Caruso.

Cheers,

Gordon Stump


Got it. Only learned BTT as a youngster from a college trumpet teacher that got it straight from CC. Thanks!

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=143928&sid=1428e4646d5412e586f47dd7844c40af
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bach_again
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 2235
Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gstump wrote:
bach_again wrote:

Hi, Gordon! Very cool image. Iím presuming T T B stands for tongue tongue breath. Can you verify? I was under the impression this was to be played B T T or B S T according to Mark Zauss - the S being a shove of air. Would love to know your take.
Best,
Mike

Hey Mike,
Back in '68 this is what Mr. Caruso gave me. It is indeed Ta-Ta-Ha.
Back in those days I could not hit water if I fell out of a boat. I feel Mr. Caruso wanted to start with the familiar. I have done it this way every time I warm up for 50 Years!

Cheers,

Gordon


Thanks for that, Gordon. You are a testament to his teaching, in that case!

Yet another example of a good teacher tailoring his material for his students on a per-player basis, and precisely why I have issues with people being too dogmatic about the prescribed exercises in a book. I believe strongly it is in the "how" not simply the "do".

Best,
Mike
_________________
Chase's Get it On fanfare:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tkU6CT8e64
Martin Handcraft Imperial (1936):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoDGp4AtUIQ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
pepperdean
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 589
Location: Johnson City, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of these days I'll spend time and learn how to post images on here. Until then, you'll have to believe me when I say my original from CArmine (1969 I think) says T-T-B.

If you'd taken lessons from me, that's the way you'd learn to do it. I think it just depends on what the challenges were for the individual on how Carmine prescribed it.

Alan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
TrpPro
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 1334
Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caruso gave the 6 Notes to me as B-T-B. When Musical Calisthenics For Brass came out around 1978 it had the articulation as B-T-T. I felt more comfortable doing it that way so switched from B-T-B to B-T-T. I also play without definite rests and breathe when necessary, while still maintaining quarter note = 60.

CC said. in general for calisthenic purposes, the lips will find their way faster using breath attacks. The exception being the tonguing exercises.

Reemphasize that the calisthenic exercises are not intended to be mastered in any musical sense. Ever. They are just meant to be done according to the 4 Rules. Trying to apply musical standards to the calisthenic exercises will slow down your development. The greatness of CC's approach is that the student just does them with absolutely no judgement ever rendered as to how well he/she is doing from a musical stand point. Just do it!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pete
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2001
Posts: 1603
Location: Western Massachusetts

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gstump wrote:
If you do some searches of the 6 notes on this forum you will see this discussed at length. Carmine Caruso was not a cookie cutter teacher. Respectfully, this manuscript was written by Mr. Caruso.

Cheers,

Gordon Stump


+1

Pete
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dstpt
Veteran Member


Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 386

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrpPro wrote:
Caruso gave the 6 Notes to me as B-T-B. When Musical Calisthenics For Brass came out around 1978 it had the articulation as B-T-T. I felt more comfortable doing it that way so switched from B-T-B to B-T-T. I also play without definite rests and breathe when necessary, while still maintaining quarter note = 60.

CC said. in general for calisthenic purposes, the lips will find their way faster using breath attacks. The exception being the tonguing exercises....


Not to challenge anyone taught differently than BTT, is it possible that CC eventually navigated to using that method only? Like, for those of you who studied directly with him, were you taught differently than BTT and was it before Musical Calisthenics for Brass came out (1978)? I'm just wondering if he got to a place in his teaching experience that the one method of BTT provided a more universal approach that he felt was acceptable to all. Now if someone responds that they were taught after the book was released and that it was different than BTT, then that would prove he was still varying his approach. It could also be that those who returned to work with him, but had originally been taught an alternate approach, that he may have allowed them to continue with what he originally gave them.

I had used the Magic 6 Notes as a youngster but felt that it made my chops way too tight. More recently I've read on TH and viewed on YouTube that it wasn't intended as an isometric exercise, so I've rekindled my inclusion of the method every day and am seeing noticeable positive change in my playing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TrpPro
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 1334
Location: Las Vegas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You ask a reasonable question.

I believe Carmine wrote MCFB in the most general way that he felt students would be able to follow without him being there to monitor. Maybe we'll hear from someone who studied post MCFB, but my inclination is to think he continued altering exercises in a way that he believed would benefit the student the most. Meaning that the student would advance the fastest.

If you follow MCFB exactly as written and ask questions on this site you will gain 100% of the Caruso approach in your playing. If you studied with Carmine directly you might gain that 100% a little sooner. : )

Read Zen In The Art Of Archery
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator


Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 5486
Location: Bloomington Indiana

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrpPro wrote:
You ask a reasonable question.

I believe Carmine wrote MCFB in the most general way that he felt students would be able to follow without him being there to monitor. Maybe we'll hear from someone who studied post MCFB, but my inclination is to think he continued altering exercises in a way that he believed would benefit the student the most. Meaning that the student would advance the fastest.

If you follow MCFB exactly as written and ask questions on this site you will gain 100% of the Caruso approach in your playing. If you studied with Carmine directly you might gain that 100% a little sooner. : )

Read Zen In The Art Of Archery


+1
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Professor of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops since 1976
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
PINCHUNO
Veteran Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every single video or method explanation I've seen, says to use Breath (hoo) then tongue (too, too). B-T-T. Or H-T-T
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tomba51
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2001
Posts: 557
Location: Hilton Head, SC

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carmine always had me do the 6 notes breath, tongue, tongue. Later, when I took lessons with Laurie Frink, she had me do it the same way.
_________________
Tom Barreca
musicians@thetee.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
maynard-46
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Oct 2002
Posts: 1717
Location: GEORGIA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject: 6 notes question Reply with quote

I studied with Carmine for 5 1/2 years....1966-early 1971 when I went on the road. He assigned the 6 note exercise for me to be done T-T-B. All of the other students at that time were assigned the same way as far as I know. To this day I still do it the same way. I think as the years went buy, including his Calisthenics Book, he changed it. He also would adapt some of his exercises to the individuals particular needs.

Butch
_________________
TRUMPETS: ADAMS LB Copper-Lacquered A9; ADAMS Gold-Lacquered A5.
FLUGEL: ADAMS Lacquered All-Copper Bell F5.
PIECES: WARBURTON 9MDW/#7 BB c/s/#23 throat;
9FLM-T; 9FLW.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Carmine Caruso All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group