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Too physicaly demanding for barely anything in return


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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Too physicaly demanding for barely anything in return Reply with quote

Tendermeat wrote:
I'm a softmore in highschool and have been playing trumpet for about 4 years. Two of my biggest problems of playing trumpet have always been endurance and range. I have looked at tons of posts and other forums and even master classes. I think the fact that I have a downstream embouchure and a horn angle of like 20 degrees downwards is what is stopping me from progressing in range or stamina. I literally can only play a sometimes good a above the staff and anything above is hit or miss and airy. I always get an indentation on my lips after playing anything for even the smallest amount of time. I probably do use to much pressure especially towards the upper lip since I play downwards. After doing(or trying to do)range exercises for a long period of time I don't see a difference and honestly I think my range just gets worse. I don't overdo it and I really cant cuz I already have crap endurance. One thing is that for a few weeks I have been playing on a shilke 15b and it feels really big on me, like I just cant get a grip on any high notes without an excessive use of pressure. The mouthpiece I played before that was a bach 3c and it also feels big on me. I have already tried a marcinkewicz 1.5 e9.1 and it is a little shallow for me. Whether or not mouthpieces will do anything for I have no idea.

Next year our senior trumpet is leaving and I will be put on lead. I just don't know what to do, I feel like I'm hopeless and wont improve range. If I had the choice to choose to have amazing flexibility or amazing range I sure as hell would pick range. Also when people say just play the music and don't focus on the notes, how is it gonna be when I literally cant hit them. Anyways enough spewing.

My question is, does anyone have any advice on what I can do for bad register?


Click on the www button at the bottom of my post. You'll read a similar story to yours. Here's a sneak preview:

Quote:
I found out about Mr. Gordon when I was a sophomore or junior in High School growing up in a suburb of Chicago. I was a pretty good trumpet player, always hovering around 1st or 2nd chair in my Jr. High and High School bands, but none the less, I definitely was a "struggler". Whatever abilities I had, I worked very hard for, and I had a lot of trouble with inconsistency in my playing.


And maybe read this, too:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=456958

Then, if you're interested in some good help, feel free to contact me.

Concerning your mouthpiece choice, if you can afford it, try a Schilke 14B. Its rim shape is very similar to a Schilke 15B but it's cup diameter and depth are both smaller than a 15B or a Bach 3C (but not radically small). It's a good, middle of the road type mouthpiece you'd be able to play any style of music on. If you can't afford that right now, then I'd suggest you go back to your Bach 3C as it is smaller and shallower than that 15B.

One other thing: You don't have to choose between amazing range and amazing flexibility. When you learn to practice the right material the right way, both of those will develop right along with the rest of the machine.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
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rufflicks
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well now that is funny I read your response and found myself smack dab in the middle of things.

A very interesting choice of forum name especially in a room full of trumpet players, I just pray you are also athletic and male. (LOL) Please forgive me if I refrain from using this handle. I think you rise well above this description! You are obviously quite bright and very much want to become a good player. Half the battle has already been won. The rest of the battle is going to be won by your willingness to sacrifice and your determination. Failure is part of success. This is simply how everything works. Luckily for us no one has to die to find the right way to play the trumpet. Digging in and applying ourselves is usually the first step to moving forward.

The best teacher shows you how to learn and improve on your own. They help you see/hear things you are doing wrong and learn to stop doing them. They also help you to know when you are doing it right and to demand that this is how you approach the horn every time you play. They also teach you that making music is the most important aspect of music. If it is just notes in a row then take up another hobby. Everything you play should be played like you are singing it to someone. (preferably someone special)

I did leave out one thing in my earlier pontification. It is the role of the lips. this is the final part of our body that makes up our pitch control mechanism.

I have seen players squeeze their lips together as they ascend. I have also seen players smile while ascending. Formation of the embouchure is very important. If we contort or warp our embouchure using it in an un-natural or forceful way we will not enjoy the most efficient process. As odd as it sounds we should be able to take a breath, close our mouth, put the mouthpiece close to the middle of our lips, slide the tip of our tongue between our teeth creating a slight gap between them, apply an exhale like cooling hot soup and quickly remove our tongue from this position. This should produce a relatively relax full tone. This feeling of a relaxed embouchure set should be sufficient for us to comfortably play from low C to C in the staff.

If we can cultivate this relaxed feeling in the mid register by ensuring we have this feeling each time we play, it then can become “normal”. Yes we might need to make slight adjustments to warm up the sound and control pitch but the over all relaxed feel should be constant in this register. Once this feeling and approach burn into our process it is possible to slowly expand register maintaining a relatively similar feeling of a relaxed embouchure. The addition of air support as we ascend helps us keep the stress out of the face thus increasing endurance and register.

It is the mechanics of our oral cavity and air support that make it possible to maintain a supple relaxed lip engagement. (As I wright this I thought of a new analogy) The lips inside the mouthpiece are like the eye of a hurricane. No matter how fierce the storm becomes that surrounds them, they need to remain in a constant compliant or relaxed state. This spot needs to maintain the consistent ability to vibrate. Everything else is simply there to support the rate of vibration required to excite the molecules in the air column of the trumpet to obtain the desired frequency or pitch. The aperture itself might change but the lips need to remain elastic enough to vibrate. Attempting to manipulate the lips themselves to acquire a particular aperture is going to prove extremely difficult if not flat out counterproductive. Much easier to learn to manipulate the mechanics that drive the creation of the proper frequency or pitch. Play the or better still sing the note! Some how our body knows what to do when we ask it to sing higher or lower. This same feeling of natural process should be the goal.

I think once a solid foundation of a relaxed upper body and embouchure set has been achieved concentration on the other mechanics involved will produce excellent results. All of this is simply my best shot at describing my experience as a player and from working with a host of other players. It is my hope that some of what I present makes sense to others and helps in the conceptual approach to making this metal pipe sing.

Best, Jon
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Tendermeat
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also forgot to mention that a few weeks ago during when I switched my mouthpiece to the b15, I somehow how worked my way up to an Eb above the staff and it sounded pretty good, no fuzzy tone at all. I told my teacher about it and he said I need to find whatever I did that day and replicate. The funny thing is I was really relaxed that day so that's something.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tendermeat wrote:
I also forgot to mention that a few weeks ago during when I switched my mouthpiece to the b15, I somehow how worked my way up to an Eb above the staff and it sounded pretty good, no fuzzy tone at all. I told my teacher about it and he said I need to find whatever I did that day and replicate. The funny thing is I was really relaxed that day so that's something.


It sounds to me your teacher is striving to help you find your own way; which is what all teachers should do. So if I were you I wouldn't be asking him to delve into specifics about your playing. Just follow the advice and observe your own playing.

If you want to explore Bill Adam you can start by reading the Bill Adam thread on TH.

My colleague, John Harbaugh, has a couple great videos on how the trumpet works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVs2G60-ilo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paMT6JGEd94

Finally, if you want to know more about Bill Adam, contact me at bbergren1728@gmail.com.
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deleted_user_680e93b
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Too physicaly demanding for barely anything in return Reply with quote

Robert P wrote:
KRELL1960 wrote:
Tender,
Your horn angle has nothing to do with your range, Nothing. that being said its your lips in relation to that horn angle that may or may not be giving you issues.

How can you possibly make such a definitive statement having never seen him play? You then seemingly contradict yourself in the next sentence. When I suggested his horn angle might have something to do with it since he mentioned it, I stated it as a possibility.

Are you saying you could play with the same range, power, facility if it were required for you to pull you horn down, or up for that matter, 20, 30, 40 degrees from where you normally play?


Hey Robert,
Yes, i could play with the same facility, power, etc, no matter what my horn angle is, so long as i keep my lip to mouthpiece "angle: the same.
try this, Assume your normal playing position, focus on the contact that your lips are making with the mouthpiece, now maintaining the focused contact, change the angle of the horn. if your lips are maintaining the same "focused" contact, what does it matter what the angle of the horn is, i can play a high C with the horn straight out, or facing the ground, or pointing at the ceiling, it just doesn't matter because i keep the mouthpiece and my lips in the same position. Try it, i'm sure you can do it. do we want to play this way, of course not, but horn angle has "nothing" to do with range and endurance. If it did we would all play the exact same way and wouldn't that be boring!

regards,

tom
36 seconds in is kind of what i'm talking about! horn angle changes, but not lip to mouthpiece angle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zGXjGZMpxg

my last post on this subject, i'm sure i'll be flamed for this, oh well !!
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Too physicaly demanding for barely anything in return Reply with quote

KRELL1960 wrote:
Robert P wrote:


Are you saying you could play with the same range, power, facility if it were required for you to pull you horn down, or up for that matter, 20, 30, 40 degrees from where you normally play?


Hey Robert,
Yes, i could play with the same facility, power, etc, no matter what my horn angle is, so long as i keep my lip to mouthpiece "angle: the same.
try this, Assume your normal playing position, focus on the contact that your lips are making with the mouthpiece, now maintaining the focused contact, change the angle of the horn. if your lips are maintaining the same "focused" contact, what does it matter what the angle of the horn is, i can play a high C with the horn straight out, or facing the ground, or pointing at the ceiling, it just doesn't matter because i keep the mouthpiece and my lips in the same position. Try it, i'm sure you can do it. do we want to play this way, of course not, but horn angle has "nothing" to do with range and endurance. If it did we would all play the exact same way and wouldn't that be boring!

regards,

tom
36 seconds in is kind of what i'm talking about! horn angle changes, but not lip to mouthpiece angle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zGXjGZMpxg

my last post on this subject, i'm sure i'll be flamed for this, oh well !!

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. I mean the angle of the horn/mp in relation to the plane of the face. I need to clarify if that's what the op is referring to.
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rothman
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tendermeat wrote:
First of all I have no desire to quit trumpet nor do I have a desire to get away from music. Band is the one thing I love doing the most and nothing beats a good sounding brass section. As for my practice, I practice just about everyday and for at least 1 hour. I've been told quality practice is better than quantitative practice so I am working on fixing up a better daily routine (if anyone also has any tips on that It would be greatly appreciated).


Just a reminder that if for whatever reason you opted out, there is no disgrace in that. What can happen is a lot of younger folks find themselves in a position with tremendous enthusiasm in one area, without finding other interests aside from 'band room'. Pursuing endeavors can be difficult with constraints on your time and energy. Ex., reading, learning seamanship, sailing, restore a vintage motorcycle, french impressionistic paintings, black & white films, etc..

Tendermeat wrote:
I also forgot to mention that a few weeks ago during when I switched my mouthpiece to the b15, I somehow how worked my way up to an Eb above the staff and it sounded pretty good, no fuzzy tone at all. I told my teacher about it and he said I need to find whatever I did that day and replicate. The funny thing is I was really relaxed that day so that's something.


Good on you..and be aware of a common pattern ; how that small success leads you to a bigger wave of enthusiasm, more commitment to perservere and find that combination to replicate it. There's a lot more to life and what's ahead of you than 'this'. Music is a beautiful thing and you can devote many years discovering more about it. Ex., Rachmaninov's 2nd piano concerto is a life altering piece imo. Had I not seen the Lean film 'Brief Encounter' last year, it would not have registered and escaped notice.
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deleted_user_680e93b
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: Too physicaly demanding for barely anything in return Reply with quote

Robert P wrote:
KRELL1960 wrote:
Robert P wrote:


Are you saying you could play with the same range, power, facility if it were required for you to pull you horn down, or up for that matter, 20, 30, 40 degrees from where you normally play?


Hey Robert,
Yes, i could play with the same facility, power, etc, no matter what my horn angle is, so long as i keep my lip to mouthpiece "angle: the same.
try this, Assume your normal playing position, focus on the contact that your lips are making with the mouthpiece, now maintaining the focused contact, change the angle of the horn. if your lips are maintaining the same "focused" contact, what does it matter what the angle of the horn is, i can play a high C with the horn straight out, or facing the ground, or pointing at the ceiling, it just doesn't matter because i keep the mouthpiece and my lips in the same position. Try it, i'm sure you can do it. do we want to play this way, of course not, but horn angle has "nothing" to do with range and endurance. If it did we would all play the exact same way and wouldn't that be boring!

regards,

tom
36 seconds in is kind of what i'm talking about! horn angle changes, but not lip to mouthpiece angle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zGXjGZMpxg

my last post on this subject, i'm sure i'll be flamed for this, oh well !!

I don't think we're talking about the same thing. I mean the angle of the horn/mp in relation to the plane of the face. I need to clarify if that's what the op is referring to.


Hey Robert,

Yep, we we're talking about different things for sure, i do agree with you when you change the horn/mp angle in relation to the face, that can cause all kinds of difficulties for sure.

regards,

tom
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Rompson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've already got some great advice so far, but I wanted to add something that I think you should think about.

All of the mouthpieces you listed are on the shallow, tight side. Even the Bach 3c is the shallowest of all the Bach C cups. Shallow, tight cups do help you in the high register, with the tradeoff being more resistance upfront. Some people thrive with that resistance, and some don't. You said the 3C and 15B feel too "big" on you, but it seems like you haven't actually tried a "big" mouthpiece to gain any perspective. I think you may be mistaking resistance for a mouthpiece being too large.

Go somewhere/order some mouthpieces online and try something with a more open throat an/or backbore, not a bigger rim and a standard throat and backbore. The Bach B cup mouthpieces are a good place to start. The cups are deeper, and the backbore is more open, giving you slightly less upfront resistance. Try a Schilke 15, and see how it feels compared to your 15B.

Try some of the orchestral Yamaha Artist Series Mouthpieces. They are affordable and more open than standard. The John Hagstrom, Mark Gould, and Bob Sullivan mouthpieces are all good ones to try. Or, take your 3C to a competent shop and have them open the throat of the mouthpiece. It's not expensive and could get you closer to what you need.

Some or all of the mouthpieces I listed might not work for you, but I'm guessing they might be a step in the right direction. Even if they don't work, at least you know, and can focus your efforts on your playing instead of equipment.


Last edited by Rompson on Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Too physicaly demanding for barely anything in return Reply with quote

Tendermeat wrote:
I'm a softmore in highschool and have been playing trumpet for about 4 years. Two of my biggest problems of playing trumpet have always been endurance and range. I have looked at tons of posts and other forums and even master classes. I think the fact that I have a downstream embouchure and a horn angle of like 20 degrees downwards is what is stopping me from progressing in range or stamina. I literally can only play a sometimes good a above the staff and anything above is hit or miss and airy. I always get an indentation on my lips after playing anything for even the smallest amount of time. I probably do use to much pressure especially towards the upper lip since I play downwards. After doing(or trying to do)range exercises for a long period of time I don't see a difference and honestly I think my range just gets worse. I don't overdo it and I really cant cuz I already have crap endurance. One thing is that for a few weeks I have been playing on a shilke 15b and it feels really big on me, like I just cant get a grip on any high notes without an excessive use of pressure. The mouthpiece I played before that was a bach 3c and it also feels big on me. I have already tried a marcinkewicz 1.5 e9.1 and it is a little shallow for me. Whether or not mouthpieces will do anything for I have no idea.

Next year our senior trumpet is leaving and I will be put on lead. I just don't know what to do, I feel like I'm hopeless and wont improve range. If I had the choice to choose to have amazing flexibility or amazing range I sure as hell would pick range. Also when people say just play the music and don't focus on the notes, how is it gonna be when I literally cant hit them. Anyways enough spewing.

My question is, does anyone have any advice on what I can do for bad register?


Welcome to TH! Taking cold hard metal, putting it up to lips and expecting beautiful music to come out is about the most un-natural thing one can do! (That's nearly a quote from Bill Adam, who's approach I pursued for many years)

You have many great responses so far, and you indeed want to get to the point that picking up the horn and getting a good solid tone is as effortless as breathing. That takes more than just lots of practice time, it takes doing things RIGHT, for lots and lots of time.

While many approaches can get you there, at least one tidbit nobody's mentioned will certainly help you and might even prove to be all you're lacking. It comes from Donald S Reinhardt, aka "Doc," who also has a sub-forum dedicated to his teachings here on TH.

Your downward pointing horn angle may be a necessity, for you. Since none of us can tell either way, let's assume it is. So you have to learn how to make it work for you! It's pretty easy to do, and simple to practice correctly. How far up or down you point your horn will directly affect where your mouthpiece pressure lays. For now, concentrate on upper lip vs lower lip. Note that you need full playing pressure in order to tell anything at all; this is not the time to work on reducing mouthpiece pressure, you can do that later.

Try to have most of the mouthpiece "weight" on your lower lip, and to keep it there throughout your playing. This feels weird at first, and may produce some air leaks. Learn to relax into it, realizing there are some specifics you can learn as you develop. Two factors control where the mouthpiece weight lands: horn angle, and lower jaw position. There is an old saying that refers to things that are inexplicably hard: "you have to hold your jaw just right." Trumpet is definitely one of those things! You might be holding your lower jaw just right from say low C to G on top of the staff, and you might need to bring your jaw forward a little to properly ascend from there. Whatever ultimately proves to work for you, the correct balance will still be determined by keeping most of the mouthpiece weight on your lower lip. So that's a good thing to practice, that you can try now.

Doing this may actually increase your mouthpiece pressure, so I should address how to minimize it: make all pressure come from the blowing muscles. If I feel any pressure at all when I play, it is at the blowing muscles, and (resistance) at the bell. This may be beyond your ability right now, but it's still a good concept to bear in mind, once you get your horn angle thing sorted. Further refinement will come from proper tongue arch, and learning to control and sustain the air pressure required for the upper register in your mouth.

Play well!
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JetJaguar
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to a solid practice regimen, don't overlook the 7C. It's not a beginner, child, or student mouthpiece any more than a 3C is. It gives you a good grip and plenty of body and power.

Here's a 7C in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeRttksjGho
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Nikoloas17
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll preface my response with acknowledging that I am no professional player, nor am I a teacher, so take my advice with a few grains of salt, and if it directly contradicts what many of the others have already said, safest bet is to lend their words more weight. That being said:

I was in a very similar situation as you, my sophomore year of high school. I was playing 3rd and 4th trumpet, had terrible range, endurance was so so, and felt like I sucked. It really hit me when the band started rehearsing graduation music, and the 3 top trumpet players were graduating, and thus, weren't rehearsing the music. I had to step up and play lead, because no one else could.

I managed, but not by doing anything drastically different. I didn't change my mouthpiece (though I was already playing a fairly small piece that I had been fitted for by a professional), I didn't try to completely relearn how to play the trumpet. I just tried to pay more attention to what my throat, tongue, and lips were doing as I tried to play higher notes, and experimented until something clicked. Now, I'm 95% sure I tried playing too many "higher notes" at first, because I was an impatient amateur, but as I relaxed more, and kept at it, my range went from about a G on top of the staff, to a D over High C, almost overnight. Does that mean they sounded amazing? NOPE. But I could HIT them, and that was necessary for me to then learn to PLAY them.

Just keep at it, be patient, and try to really pay attention to what your embouchure is doing when you try to play higher. See if you can apply some of the techniques suggested by many of our wonderful friends here on TH. And don't feel rushed to develop range, it happens when it happens.

-Nick
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INTJ
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tendermeat,

There is a lot of good advice in this thread, but as pointed out it’s hard to help someone over the internet. We all use different terms and visualizations to describe what we do. Worse, those terms and visualizations mean different things to different people. Here are some general principles.

1. Practice consistently
2. Play to the top of your range frequently, but NEVER strain when doing so
3. We all need to find the right balance of air support, lip compression, and
tongue arch. You may need help with this
4. Find a mouthpiece that fits you. This can take a long time
5. Improvement does not happen evenly. The are long periods of seeming
non-improvement followed by jumps in ability and sometimes regression
6. You need to make sure you are on the right path. A chop doc like Pops
McLaughlin would be a big help and he can help you on Skype

I am an amateur downstream player. I have a solid High G/A above High C and have performed DHC. Upstream or downstream isn’t the issue by itself. I also play Wedge MPs, and while I do like how it allows me to have a fuller tone for the small size of MP, the Wedge is more of a fine tuning and I don’t think you are ready for fine tuning.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jetjaguar wrote:
In addition to a solid practice regimen, don't overlook the 7C. It's not a beginner, child, or student mouthpiece any more than a 3C is. It gives you a good grip and plenty of body and power.

Here's a 7C in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeRttksjGho


Warren Leuning RIP He had a great solo on "All or Nothing at All" on Patrick Williams' Sinatraland CD. Another great player on that album was also a 7C player, George Graham. The other two guys were Rick Baptist and Wayne Bergeron)

BTW the Schilke 15B was disigned from a Mt. Vernon Bach 3C (wider ID than a 1 1/2C) for John Cejanovich, a Chicago freelancer who frequently played extra with CSO. If a 7C has too much bite for you you might like a 6C with a more forgiving rim.
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Tendermeat
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So after really thinking about all the information that was given here, I have come to the conclusion that whatever I'm doing now with my current setup is just wrong. I don't know why I didn't see this sooner because not seeing progress for 1 or even 2 years isn't a matter of "not being good until 10 years of playing bs". Practice wont get me anywhere if I'm just playing very inefficiently.

The first thing that spiked interest was the open and closed aperture settings, I play with an open setting and I can see why that could be such a limiting factor in range/endurance. If the aperture is too big it will be very hard to produce higher pitches because a smaller focused aperture combined with correct tongue levels will be the ideal type of playing(I think).

Another factor is again, tongue level. When I play I feel as though my tongue is just doing its own thing as I put a piece of metal on my face and force notes. This is very evident in lip slurs as I can feel the pressure increase and gets much harder to play.

The mouthpiece situation is a tiny bit better. I realized that the schilke 15B was just eating my lips most of the time. Sure the low notes were louder and fuller but as soon as the upper register comes it is as thin as paper. Ill try a 7c to see if that would be a better mp to stay on. Over the summer I want to order a wedge mouthpiece just to try because they have a return policy and I have heard some great things about them.

I know trumpet playing doesn't or rarely has night and day differences when it comes to progress but its impossible to say to someone that "if you keep practicing you will get there". There are lots of stories of players who have always had bad range and endurance for there whole career and that ordinary practice wouldn't solve that until experimenting and possible embouchure tweaks/changes came into play.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The quest for the "Golden Key" continues.
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kalijah
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Another factor is again, tongue level. When I play I feel as though my tongue is just doing its own thing as I put a piece of metal on my face and force notes. This is very evident in lip slurs as I can feel the pressure increase and gets much harder to play.


The tongue moves only in relation to what the lips are doing. DO not over-think this. Tongue movement alone does nothing in a direct causative way.

The tongue "mirrors" the muscular action of the inner corner muscles of the aperture (the roll-out action). Do not deny or dis-allow the tongue movements but don't be misled into believing that the tongue does "something" to the air and thereby influences pitch. It really doesn't.

The lip aperture control, habits and skill, is what determines pitch, quality of tone and efficiency of tone. Air pressure must vary for dynamics. The tongue movements, described as "arch" by some, are related to certain muscular actions at the aperture and vary with effort of those muscles.
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Lionel
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Too physicaly demanding for barely anything in return Reply with quote

Tendermeat wrote:
I'm a softmore in highschool and have been playing trumpet for about 4 years. Two of my biggest problems of playing trumpet have always been endurance and range. I have looked at tons of posts and other forums and even master classes. I think the fact that I have a downstream embouchure and a horn angle of like 20 degrees downwards is what is stopping me from progressing in range or stamina. I literally can only play a sometimes good a above the staff and anything above is hit or miss and airy. I always get an indentation on my lips after playing anything for even the smallest amount of time. I probably do use to much pressure especially towards the upper lip since I play downwards. After doing(or trying to do)range exercises for a long period of time I don't see a difference and honestly I think my range just gets worse. I don't overdo it and I really cant cuz I already have crap endurance. One thing is that for a few weeks I have been playing on a shilke 15b and it feels really big on me, like I just cant get a grip on any high notes without an excessive use of pressure. The mouthpiece I played before that was a bach 3c and it also feels big on me. I have already tried a marcinkewicz 1.5 e9.1 and it is a little shallow for me. Whether or not mouthpieces will do anything for I have no idea.

Next year our senior trumpet is leaving and I will be put on lead. I just don't know what to do, I feel like I'm hopeless and wont improve range. If I had the choice to choose to have amazing flexibility or amazing range I sure as hell would pick range. Also when people say just play the music and don't focus on the notes, how is it gonna be when I literally cant hit them. Anyways enough spewing.

My question is, does anyone have any advice on what I can do for bad register?



The range benefits of blowing "upstream" vs "downstream" are mostly only significant at the top professional level. This is where we see those "downstream" types kinda stuck at G above high C while the more forward jaw players are sometimes able to blow much higher.

So your problem as a high school student is not caused by blowing "downstream". Just as an example. I was able to blow the whole Maynard Ferguson arrangement of "Hey Jude" down on the week before I turned 18 years of age.

And I'm a naturally very low horn angle player. So I'd say that your problem lies elsewhere.

First of all,

What equipment are you using? Don't expect to blow double C on a Bach 1. In fact there aren't any Bach mouthpieces I feel comfortable using on stage or on rehearsal. I like to use mouthpieces down around the Schilke 6 size but with very open back-bores. This means mouthpiece customizing. The 6A cup depth gives lots of sizzle and plenty of support. But don't expect to be able to switch over to such a small piece instantaneously. These kinds of changes take soe time. Patience is critical.

A Schilke 6A or 5A with a #22 to #23 throat makes for a very powerful piece. With experience you can just lay back and hammer high F's and G's and not even need to practice so much. And the wide open throat allows for a very fat middle register tone.

About the only time that I use really large, deep mouthieces is on solo, classical work. On these mouthpieces I find it easier to get control on wide interval leaps. They also aid in articulation and blend well with cornets and flugels. But otherwise?

I'm a screamer mouthiece player.

PS: Just re-read your post and noticed the Marcinkiewicz piece. I would recommend it over the 3C any day. While 3C is a great sounding piece I used to need to play 3 to 5 hours on it every day just to stay in shape. Meanwhile a shallower piece wouldnt need even one hour a day to stay in shape on.

The young trumpet player who is developing his range and power must constantly be aware of the problem of over-trained chops. While large mouthpieces seem more macho to play high notes on? You can really wear yourself out miserably on them.

Develop an intelligent approach to practice and development. And?

"Work SMART. Not hard".
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