Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:13 am Post subject: Silver cleaning and polishing
Hello all,
I’m looking to expand my cleaning and polishing techniques outside of dawn soap in the bathtub and then a silver polishing cloth. I found a video online of a DCI player who uses “brasso” for cleaning slides and then “hagerty’s spray” (because it’s not abrasive like the paste). Has anyone ever used these and what have your experiences been?
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:47 am Post subject:
Do a search; there are many threads on this.
Brasso is pretty abrasive.
For silver I use 3M's Tarnishield. Others use Flitz, and I am sure others abound. I would not use a normal silver polish like Wright's (too abrasive). Also search for the baking soda and aluminum method of removing tarnish without removing metal. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
Joined: 27 Sep 2017 Posts: 11 Location: Ft. Washington, MD
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:54 am Post subject: Silver cleaning and polishing
RandyLongwill wrote:
I’m looking to expand my cleaning and polishing techniques outside of dawn soap in the bathtub and then a silver polishing cloth. I found a video online of a DCI player who uses “brasso” for cleaning slides and then “hagerty’s spray” (because it’s not abrasive like the paste). Has anyone ever used these and what have your experiences been?
Hey, RandyLongwill:
Welcome to TH!
I have not used either of these, but offer the following, albeit unsolicited, advice:
The bathtub method is great for removing greasy fingerprints from the outside and saliva and gunk from the inside (so long as the valves are completely removed and you wash them separately to make sure the felt pads do not get wet - this could alter the vertical alignment of the valves).
As for the tarnish, simply washing won't do anything for the tarnish, however. Tarnish is simply a chemical reaction between the silver and oxygen in the air we breath (atmosphere). Unless the silver is somehow "sealed" from the oxygen, tarnish is inevitable.
Though I'm no expert by any stretch of my imagination (nor anyone else's), for cleaning a silver or silver plated horn (or mouthpiece), I would suggest using the chemical method that "reverses" the tarnishing process versus "removing" the tarnish that is on the silver. Why? You said you use a silver polishing cloth on your horn. If it is a commercially available cloth, it is impregnated with a solvent that "removes" the tarnish from the horn. When you take a look at the cloth after polishing, it has turned dark - that's the tarnish removed from the horn, but it's taking silver with it. To get a better (albeit longer) explanation and to see how to "reverse" the process, check out the link below:
I tried it on my mouthpieces for my comeback (which, when I removed them from my case after decades of non-use, I was afraid to even touch them!) and let me tell you, it works!
Please let us know what you think and how it turned out, if you deceide to give it a try.
Best!
MDHorn _________________ Coming back soon!
'39 King Master Cornet
'74 Olds Ambassador
'?? Couesnon Flugelhorn
Last edited by MDHorn on Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
For silver I use 3M's Tarnishield. Others use Flitz ...
I would never advise anyone to use Flitz on silver plate. Here's what Flitz's website says: "DO NOT use Flitz, or any polish, on any plated item unless the manufacturer specifically recommends it. Flitz is not dangerous to use on any metal, but the actual polishing is what rubs the plating off." _________________ '75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
Keep in mind if the polish contains a silica base some shops won’t replate because the silicone creates a barrier over time that causes adhesion issues with the new plating.
Joined: 27 Sep 2017 Posts: 11 Location: Ft. Washington, MD
Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject:
AwesomeDad wrote:
Keep in mind if the polish contains a silica base some shops won’t replate because the silicone creates a barrier over time that causes adhesion issues with the new plating.
JJ
+1 _________________ Coming back soon!
'39 King Master Cornet
'74 Olds Ambassador
'?? Couesnon Flugelhorn
Keep in mind if the polish contains a silica base some shops won’t replate because the silicone creates a barrier over time that causes adhesion issues with the new plating.
JJ
Silica and silicone are not the same thing. Silica is essentially sand. Silicone is a synthetic rubber. If the polish contains silica, it is abrasive. If it contains silicone, it is lubricious and, yes, the silicone will build up on the surface. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
The aluminum foil and baking soda method as previously mentioned works, the downside is it's somewhat labor intensive and there's a certain amount of hazard in that you're using hot water - the hotter the better. The other thing I find is it isn't as effective on certain stubborn spots. There might be a way to sup-up the process. The best thing to do is start using the process when the horn is new and not let it get really tarnished. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7770 Location: Des Moines, IA area
Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:36 am Post subject:
If you are using a polishing cloth very often you'll soon start to notice "gold" colored places appear on sharp edges where you're wearing the silver plating off of the instrument entirely. You'll also wear through the plating faster at the normal places of contact.
I must have a fairly easy chemical system that doesn't affect the finish very much and perhaps the air quality where I live is better than some- I rarely see a need to clean/polish my trumpets and tarnish is minimal. When I do polish I use the Tarnishield because that's what Schilke recommended when I bought my first horn there 45 years ago. One container seems to last forever if you keep it capped tightly and Tarnishield contains an inhibitor that helps prevent further tarnishing. The soda/aluminum foil method works as well but there is no inhibitor. Anyway, were I you, I'd toss that cloth in the trash. (I do, BTW, keep the inside of the instruments clean...) Good luck.
Joined: 18 Jan 2002 Posts: 1631 Location: Waldorf MD
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Silver cleaning and polishing
MDHorn wrote:
RandyLongwill wrote:
I’m looking to expand my cleaning and polishing techniques outside of dawn soap in the bathtub and then a silver polishing cloth. I found a video online of a DCI player who uses “brasso” for cleaning slides and then “hagerty’s spray” (because it’s not abrasive like the paste). Has anyone ever used these and what have your experiences been?
Hey, RandyLongwill:
Welcome to TH!
I have not used either of these, but offer the following, albeit unsolicited, advice:
The bathtub method is great for removing greasy fingerprints from the outside and saliva and gunk from the inside (so long as the valves are completely removed and you wash them separately to make sure the felt pads do not get wet - this could alter the vertical alignment of the valves).
As for the tarnish, simply washing won't do anything for the tarnish, however. Tarnish is simply a chemical reaction between the silver and oxygen in the air we breath (atmosphere). Unless the silver is somehow "sealed" from the oxygen, tarnish is inevitable.
Though I'm no expert by any stretch of my imagination (nor anyone else's), for cleaning a silver or silver plated horn (or mouthpiece), I would suggest using the chemical method that "reverses" the tarnishing process versus "removing" the tarnish that is on the silver. Why? You said you use a silver polishing cloth on your horn. If it is a commercially available cloth, it is impregnated with a solvent that "removes" the tarnish from the horn. When you take a look at the cloth after polishing, it has turned dark - that's the tarnish removed from the horn, but it's taking silver with it. To get a better (albeit longer) explanation and to see how to "reverse" the process, check out the link below:
I tried it on my mouthpieces for my comeback (which, when I removed them from my case after decades of non-use, I was afraid to even touch them!) and let me tell you, it works!
Please let us know what you think and how it turned out, if you deceide to give it a try.
Best!
MDHorn
I'm wondering if the chemical method has any effect (negative or positive) on the exposed brass inside the tubing, valve casings, etc? _________________ كافر
9/11/01 Never forget those who died. Never forget those who killed them.
... When I do polish I use the Tarnishield because that's what Schilke recommended when I bought my first horn there 45 years ago. One container seems to last forever if you keep it capped tightly and Tarnishield contains an inhibitor that helps prevent further tarnishing... Anyway, were I you, I'd toss that cloth in the trash. (I do, BTW, keep the inside of the instruments clean...) Good luck.
Tarnishield has been my finish cleaning choice since 1971. I use it about once a year or so and that seems to work very well since the tarnish preventive aspect is very effective. I also wipe my horns down thoroughly at the end of the day with an untreated Selvyt Cloth (machine washing regularly keeps the cloths working and lasting extremely well). The Selvyt Cloth is UNTREATED and removes fingerprints and light oils before storing my horns away. The Silver Plate on my 1971 Benge (I bought new in late 1971 or early 1972) is still very good other than a few minor scratches and tiny pings but absolutely no wear through. As far as cleaning the inside, I used the bathtub and snake method for decades until I heard about BlowDry Brass. I started using that exclusively on a then new Bach NY7 about a year and a half ago, following the directions at the end of every playing day. I took a few days cleaning all of my other horns as thoroughly as possible the old school way then began using BlowDry Brass on all of them at the end of every playing day as well. I consider my horns as fine tools and expect them to last me a lifetime, and I treat them as such. My Grandson has his eye on all of my horns as well and they will eventually go to him, so I want them to be as good as possible for him too!
Best Wishes,
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces
Last edited by cbtj51 on Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Silver cleaning and polishing
308WIN wrote:
I'm wondering if the chemical method has any effect (negative or positive) on the exposed brass inside the tubing, valve casings, etc?
No. The chemical reaction reduces the silver tarnish, doesn't do anything to the brass.
You do still need to clean the horn as the mixture has to be able to reach the silver for it to work, natch. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
Joined: 19 Dec 2013 Posts: 612 Location: Oakville, CT
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:57 am Post subject:
I've used the foil and baking soda routine. It works, but tarnish comes back quickly.
I think tarnish in the early stages gives the horn a nice smoky look, but there comes a time it just looks gross. The horn gets shiny at its annual clean at Osmun and stays fairly nice for about six months. So I give it a mid-year wipedown with Twinkle, which is one of the least abrasive creams.
That looks like a standard silver polishing cloth. It's basically a flannel cloth with a mild to medium abrasive substance that rubs off the tarnished silver to expose the shiny silver below. That's basically how all of them work.
Use it too much and you'll rub off your silver plate to bare brass in spots.
I used one of these a ton in HS. I've used it maybe once, since then.
To each their own....
Also note that you linked to a Blitz "polishing cloth" as opposed to Blitz "Silver Shine Polish." The link that the above poster has notes that the polishing cloth is too abrasive, but has good things to say about the silver polish along with 3M Tarnishield.
Croquethed wrote:
Blitz is recommended by Mr. Herman. Followed closely by Tanishield and Twinkle.
Joined: 17 Dec 2004 Posts: 1251 Location: Boston MA
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:32 am Post subject:
Oh, I'll stop using the Blitz cloth and get the blitz polish. i actually like a shiny horn so i don't want to wear away the silver plate. _________________ Adams/ACB collaborative
Yamaha Shew Jazz and Bach 7C
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