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Larris Regular Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2018 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:04 am Post subject: How many trumpet parts in a score? |
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I`m working on a score and to fullfill every chord and movement I want, I need one cornet part and 4 trumpet parts in the score. Is this common, or "to much"? |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:39 am Post subject: |
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"Too much?" You are the composer, you call the shots. My question, are you writing for a particular ensemble? or are putting together an ensemble to play the piece as you have written? |
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Larris Regular Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2018 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for answering. I write this piece for "a common band". Piccolo, Flute, Oboe, Bassoon, 1.2.3 Clarinets, Bass Cl., 1.2 A.sax, T.sax, B.sax, Cornet, 1.2.3.4 Trumpet, 1.2.3.4 Horn, 1.2 Trombone, Bass Trombone, Euphonium, Solo Tuba, Tuba, Percussion included Glockenspiel |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:16 am Post subject: |
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In the score you quote there are 4 Cornet parts and 4 Trumpet parts yet only one flute and one trombone? Before going on, is this the instrumentation of an existing band or your own distribution of parts?
If you've got something special in mind, then go for it. But taken at face value, this is an instrumentally imbalanced ensemble.
To answer the question in your thread title, however, it's common to have 3 Cornet parts and 2 Trumpet parts. In modern band, it's not uncommon to specify just just 3 or 4 Trumpet parts, divided if necessary. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Larris Regular Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2018 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for your reply.
Like I said: One Cornet, 4 trumpets, 3 trombones (1.2,bass), 1 flute part. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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In most concert ensembles it makes sense to write only 3 or 4 trumpet parts. You could add one or more cornet parts if you want their characteristic sound but most of the amateur ensemble I've encountered wouldn't have cornets and would play the parts on trumpet anyway.
Hard to imagine needing eight unique trumpet/cornet voices except for pretty specialized works, particularly with the relatively thin instrumentation you mentioned. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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I've arranged music with many different trumpet parts, and I found that it can get difficult because you have to put some parts in extreme low or high registers at times. The players won't enjoy playing that kind of part (especially the really low stuff), and it can cause a really thick, mushy ensemble sound.
Instead, I suggest you just write three trumpet/cornet parts and let trumpeters/cornetists double up on a part if necessary. Arrange the other parts (trombone, flute, etc.) as usual. This would give you the freedom to arrange more interesting/fun parts, and the ensemble won't sound so mushy. Just my 2¢. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Larris wrote: | Thank you for your reply.
Like I said: One Cornet, 4 trumpets, 3 trombones (1.2,bass), 1 flute part. |
Gad, I need better eyes. =:-O _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Larris Regular Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2018 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone! Very good idea to make it more funny for the players! I like that comment. And the others, very interesting to hear different opinions. |
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Larris Regular Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2018 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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I think I will make three trumpet parts like you said dstdenis. The places where I need extra tones to fullfill the chords, I will split up the part in two options. Nice |
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OldHorn Regular Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2017 Posts: 90
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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I work for a music publisher and what you have is not common. In middle school band pieces, just 2 trumpet parts are common, in upper level pieces 3 trumpet parts are the norm, occasionally there is a 4th part. Rarely do I ever see a cornet part any more. I only remember one piece in the last 10 years with a cornet and that was a British piece.
Unless you're writing for a specific ensemble, I would stick to a common instrumentation.
Don't forget that within each part you can use divisi to cover more notes.
Just curious what does Solo Tuba & Tuba mean? |
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falado Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 933 Location: Eastern NC
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, I’m a middle school band director and also work with high school bands and also write/arrange concert band, jazz band, and field shows. At one time, traditional old stock charts or transcriptions (orchestra material arranged for concert wind band) would have 3 cornet and 2 trumpet parts. The trumpet parts usually being the actual trumpet parts. The Holst Suites for Military Band are also 3 cornet and 2 Trumpets. Also, transcriptions will be transposed to a more concert band friendly key. Big band charts usually 4 Trumpets and sometimes 5. With 4 Trumpets, when the lead gets to g above the staff or higher I use a drop 2 method when voicing Trumpets and trombones together, this way the 1st trombone doesn’t get too high. The second voice below lead drops down an 8va to lead trombone, 2nd trumpet gets the next extension or chord tone.
Concert band arrangements today depend on difficulty, grade 1, 1 1/2 (there are 6 grades of difficulty in concert band charts with 1 as easy and 6 as difficult, you can check on J.W. Pepper’s website for further explanation). The grade 1 (easy charts) will be written for 1 or 2 Trumpets. Grade 3 and beyond will usually have 3 cornet or 3 trumpet parts. There are now flex band arrangements where there may be 2 or 3 trumpet parts, but they may be doubled with clarinet, flute, or alto sax, etc. in order to have a full arrangement where you might have a band, let’s say, with no horn in F, Oboe, or limited saxes, euphonium, etc.
So, depending on difficulty, 2 or 3 Trumpets for concert band depending on player ability too.
Hope this helps, Dave _________________ FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
Besson Cornet |
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Larris Regular Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2018 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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OldHorn; In my country Tuba means tuba, and Solo Tuba means solo tuba. Maybe this is incorrect language, sorry for that. Good information, thank you. I learn much from this. falado; Thank you for information, I have much to learn. Thanks everybody. In my country it`s time to sleep, good night. |
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OldHorn Regular Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2017 Posts: 90
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Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Larris wrote: | OldHorn; In my country Tuba means tuba, and Solo Tuba means solo tuba. Maybe this is incorrect language, sorry for that. Good information, thank you. I learn much from this. falado; Thank you for information, I have much to learn. Thanks everybody. In my country it`s time to sleep, good night. |
Hi Larris,
Sorry about any confusion. When I see Solo Tuba, it implies to me that this piece of music features the solo tuba and the rest of the band is the tuba's accompaniment. If that describes this music, then solo tuba is correct.
On the other hand, if you have a tuba part that you only want one player to play, (and it does not feature the tuba) you would create a single tuba part and write "one player only" for those sections and write "tutti" when you want all of the tubas to play.
Good luck. |
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Larris Regular Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2018 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Hello again! Thank you for this information. I will do it that way |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2335 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:35 am Post subject: |
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I played tuba in college and remember older (and since I'm now pretty old we're talking OLDER) arrangements with separate Eb and Bb tuba parts. Could the OP's "solo tuba" part, distinct from the "tuba" part reflect distinct Eb and Bb parts (which would both be written in un-transposed bass clef)? _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski |
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Larris Regular Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2018 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Suppose so. |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:46 am Post subject: |
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There are certainly a large number of arrangements (mostly transcriptions of orchestral works actually) for wind ensemble/concert band that call for 5 unique high brass parts.
Most of them seem to fall out as 3 cornets, 2 trumpets, with the cornets being the more technically difficult, and the trumpet parts being 'fanfare' like parts.
That's certainly not always the case, but you do see it a lot. I think as the arranger, you can do whatever you want, but it would be wise to at least have critical parts covered elsewhere. Cues, or optional alternate parts for other instruments might be wise if you think it's likely that some ensembles that might buy the music won't have 5 trumpets (or cornets) in the section. Smaller college ensembles spring to mind, whereas most community bands tend to have 10-15 trumpets (some of which can actually play). _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:48 am Post subject: |
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nieuwguyski wrote: | I played tuba in college and remember older (and since I'm now pretty old we're talking OLDER) arrangements with separate Eb and Bb tuba parts. Could the OP's "solo tuba" part, distinct from the "tuba" part reflect distinct Eb and Bb parts (which would both be written in un-transposed bass clef)? |
Brass Band (British style, not New Orleans) music still does this, only they call them Eb and Bb 'bass' instead of tuba. Typically the Bb parts are down the octave (and sometimes pedaled even lower when they have someone that can do it well). _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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Richard A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 721 Location: Rhode Island, USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:25 am Post subject: Seven Parts in the Trumpet Section |
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RandyTX wrote: | There are certainly a large number of arrangements (mostly transcriptions of orchestral works actually) for wind ensemble/concert band that call for 5 unique high brass parts.
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My band is working on an arrangement of Wotan's Farewell that has seven (7) parts- three cornets, two flugelhorns, two trumpets.
Neat thing is we're all playing the called-for instrument. _________________ Richard Ashmore
I am a Mechanical Engineer and have many years of Social Distancing experience. |
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