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Rite of Spring trumpet in D


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trumpetgeek234
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

It seems like next year we are going to be playing "the rite of spring" by stravinsky.

Now I'd like to know what trumpet is used on the "trumpet in D" part? Seems like many play it on piccolo, but would a D-Trumpet be an option?
What do the greats like Phil Smith play it on?

I would also be grateful if someone could send me the part via eMail.

Peter
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Mzony
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that many of the "greats" use piccolo trumpets.
However, James Thompson and some other players like the D trumpet.

I actually like the D trumpet and I am sure that ALL of the vintage recordings from the 50's and 60's have the D trumpet in use.

Whatever makes YOU comfortable behind the horn is what YOU should use.

Mike
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fuzzyjon79
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you use piccolo in A on that piece, you could read it like it is in bass clef, up 1 whole step... I think that's how most players would play it if they used a picc instead of a D trumpet....I did that with the Vivaldi Gloria one year.. but it's been so long ago, I can't remember the exact transposition. That would be my personal preference.
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wiseone2
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Parts of the Rite are great on the Eb.
I can make more sound on the bigger horns-D, Eb
Wilmer
On 2003-10-10 05:12, Mzony wrote:
I know that many of the "greats" use piccolo trumpets.
However, James Thompson and some other players like the D trumpet.

I actually like the D trumpet and I am sure that ALL of the vintage recordings from the 50's and 60's have the D trumpet in use.

Whatever makes YOU comfortable behind the horn is what YOU should use.

Mike

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johntpt
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you use a piccolo for this part, try it on the Bb side. Ghitalla suggested this to me and it really works better than A IMHO.

G trumpet is also a good choice.

I saw the CSO play this about 10 years ago. Bud used some strange looking D trumpet and sounded pretty amazing!

JU
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trumpetgeek234
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't exactly remember what Phil Smith played it on, when I saw them do it in 2001. Actually I sat so far away it wasn't even possible, but as far as I can guess it was something other than a piccolo trumpet.
Well now, there seems to be a division between piccolo and D-trumpet use. For me I would think that D-trumpet would have a stronger sound, but also a higher risk of missing notes. I guess it wouldn't be all that good on my scherzer piccolo anyways, so I might as well get an Eb/D trumpet, which I could also use on a lot of other stuff.

Peter
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tcutrpt
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The recording I have with NY Phil sounds as if Mr. Smith is playing it on a picc trumpet. He seems to be one that stays pretty consistent with the equipment he uses on a piece.
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trumpetmike
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use whichever instrument you like, so long as it sounds good.

My personal preference is for the sound of a D trumpet (not a great fan of the laser like piccolo that seems to be the current trend), but that is just me. I have played in orchestras where the principals have used piccolo and D trumpets, the sound is the important thing.

If we are thinking historically, the D trumpet is probably a more accurate representation of what Stravinsky wanted, but if we are to go down that route we should all put the instruments we currently use for orchestral playing back in their cases and bring out the small bore trumpets.

I agree with Johntpt that if you are going to use a piccolo a G trumpet is a good option - the sound of a D with the ease of accuracy of a piccolo.

In this piece (as in all playing) I think we should be willing to try everything (some conductors have a very specific timbral spectrum they are aiming for in this piece) and if we are given the choice we should go for the one which sounds best - whether that means the one we are less likely to split notes on (piccolo) or the one that is possibly more historically informed (D trumpet), this is our musical choice, but it must be a musical one.
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Bstradivarius
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just tried G, D trumpet and piccolo trumpet for that part, and don't see how anybody can play it on D trumpet. I put the G trumpet away after the first lick. I tip my hat to anyone who is comfortable on D trumpet or G trumpet on that part.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has been shared with me that the goal that Mr. Stravinsky was looking to achieve was a strident, brilliant tone that cuts through the orchestra. In the past, I have used my Kanstul piccolo trumpet in A. Were I playing it in the near future, I might consider my G1L-4, or that same piccolo. I would not use a larger, symphonic D trumpet with large bell that sounds very similar to the C trumpet, as that is NOT was Stravinsky intended for a tone with this work. The modern piccolo is perhaps a great choice, but like others, I'd maybe suggest Bb instead of A piccolo.

Just remember that brilliant, crystal-clear, sparkling tone that Stravinsky wanted to cut through the orchestra, and you'll be on the right track!

Good luck!

AL
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tptmed
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voisin told me he used piccolo, Eb, D and C on this piece.
I also like it on Bb piccolo as opposed to A.
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CRoberts8
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen quite a few players do the opening solo on piccolo in Bb, and then pull the leadpipe to A (or change leadpipes). I have used my P5-4 on this part, and switch between a “big horn” mouthpiece and a more traditional orchestral piccolo trumpet mouthpiece depending on the color needed.

Having studied with Jim Thompson (mentioned in one of the posts from 2003 in this thread) I recall he talked about getting the sound of a small bell, French style D trumpet in your head when performing the piece. These D trumpets are very different than many of the big, orchestral C trumpet inspired D trumpets that are in use today.
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Danbassin
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played it on both piccolo (in A, throughout) and Eb. The Eb trumpet - NOT D, though there are many wonderful performances using D trumpet - sits great throughout essentially the whole piece, and bridges the gap between the upper brass and mid-woodwind far better than piccolo. Manny Laureano made this recommendation, so if you go this route, you'll be in pretty good company!

Happy practicing!

-DB
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I play:
Monette CORNETTE
C: Monette 937; Bach 229 Sterling Bell, Monette pipe
Various Bb, D trumpets.
Picc: DEG Signature 4-Valve
MPCs: Monette Prana Resonance 1-1 series.
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Bstradivarius
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tptmed wrote:
Voisin told me he used piccolo, Eb, D and C on this piece.
I also like it on Bb piccolo as opposed to A.


Roger Voisin was a titan.
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Jon J
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Bstradivarius
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRoberts8 wrote:
I have seen quite a few players do the opening solo on piccolo in Bb, and then pull the leadpipe to A (or change leadpipes). I have used my P5-4 on this part, and switch between a “big horn” mouthpiece and a more traditional orchestral piccolo trumpet mouthpiece depending on the color needed.

Having studied with Jim Thompson (mentioned in one of the posts from 2003 in this thread) I recall he talked about getting the sound of a small bell, French style D trumpet in your head when performing the piece. These D trumpets are very different than many of the big, orchestral C trumpet inspired D trumpets that are in use today.


I can see how Bb picc would benefit. You can avoid the C Sharps of A picc and having to pull out the third valve slide. Then when the crazy high stuff comes, back to A and in tune for those. Win win! Just played last night - reading rehearsal. Nutty piece.
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chrisf3000
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind that the D trumpets those guys used to play were a much smaller bore than modern D trumpets. I believe that the Yamaha 9636, for example, has the same bore size as a Bb trumpet. Playing on a much smaller bore like that probably helped them feel like they weren't "falling into the horn" by the end of the night.

As a side note, does anyone happen to have a transposed version of the D trumpet part? I am playing it next season, so to have one that someone's already played from would be a huge help.
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Heim
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuzzyjon79 wrote:
If you use piccolo in A on that piece, you could read it like it is in bass clef, up 1 whole step... I think that's how most players would play it if they used a picc instead of a D trumpet....I did that with the Vivaldi Gloria one year.. but it's been so long ago, I can't remember the exact transposition. That would be my personal preference.


I do that transposition as F trumpet while using a C (perfect 4th).
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Heim
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bstradivarius wrote:
I just tried G, D trumpet and piccolo trumpet for that part, and don't see how anybody can play it on D trumpet. I put the G trumpet away after the first lick. I tip my hat to anyone who is comfortable on D trumpet or G trumpet on that part.


One needs to be in really good shape to do it on a D.
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Bstradivarius
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heim wrote:
Bstradivarius wrote:
I just tried G, D trumpet and piccolo trumpet for that part, and don't see how anybody can play it on D trumpet. I put the G trumpet away after the first lick. I tip my hat to anyone who is comfortable on D trumpet or G trumpet on that part.


One needs to be in really good shape to do it on a D.


You got me! 😊
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rein
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 2013, the Les Siecles orchestra performed Le Sacre at the BBC proms on period instruments. The whole concert with introduction is on youtube. Here is a clip where the D trumpet is visible:

https://youtu.be/rq1q6u3mLSM?t=12m44s
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