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DLA Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 73 Location: Lancaster, PA
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:33 pm Post subject: Which new Bach models do you recommend right now? |
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I realize that Bach trumpet manufacturing has made some very good instruments over the years and also some no-so-good horns, with quality and craftsmanship declining. My question is for those of you that have recently played lots of new professional Bach models. Which models are the very best right now? I realize the importance of play-testing each horn but I'd like to quickly eliminate inferior models and specifically try Bach's best models right now. Thanks for the advice and opinions. _________________ Bach NY7 (180S77) Bb
Bach Strad C
Schilke E3L Eb/D
Yamaha Custom Pic
Holton Flugel F-100
Xeno 8620 Yamaha Eb Sop. Cornet |
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Jay2015trumpet Regular Member
Joined: 29 May 2015 Posts: 74
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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190 series all the way...any will make your playing easier, just depends on what genre/environment you'll be using it in...ymmv |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think I ever heard anyone say that quality issues plagued any particular model or models. For some years of manufacture, quality appears to have been more unpredictable, though it sounds like things are better now. I'd choose a model not on which is better or which has fewer quality issues. I'd pick it based on desired sound, how it feels, and how you want to use it. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: | I don't think I ever heard anyone say that quality issues plagued any particular model or models. For some years of manufacture, quality appears to have been more unpredictable, though it sounds like things are better now. I'd choose a model not on which is better or which has fewer quality issues. I'd pick it based on desired sound, how it feels, and how you want to use it. |
Bingo.
And on top of all that...
Get to play as many as possible together and pick the one that speaks to you - that exact example.
Ideally, a mix of different models (more than one of each if possible) and maybe a vintage/used model or two. |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2025 Location: USA
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Which models are the very best right now? |
I have no way of knowing what might work for your needs, but I've played a lot of new Bachs this year, and here are the models that I liked best:
Bb
The 19037 and 19043 are both fantastic horns. I have always liked the 18037, so I was pretty confident that I would like the 19037 before I played it. Yup. Fantastic all around horn.
I've never been drawn to the 43 bell, so I found the 19043 to be a very pleasant surprise. The seemingly minor physical differences between the 19043 and the 18043 made a significant difference (to me) in how the horn played/sounded. It is a very versatile horn.
C
The Chicago and Philadelphia models are terrific; the best C trumpets I played out of the many models I tried from Adams, Bach, Edwards, Getzen, Larson, Powell, Schilke, Shires, Stomvi, Van Laar and Yamaha. The only difference between the two horns is that the Chicago offers a more brilliant sound.
The Artisan (AC190) model is also a terrific horn. Big, full sound, but also plenty nimble with lots of control at the volume extremes. |
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theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Jay2015trumpet wrote: | 190 series all the way...any will make your playing easier, just depends on what genre/environment you'll be using it in...ymmv |
What is the 190 all about? Of course I could google it, but rather hear from this group. _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
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Winghorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 2159 Location: Olympia, Washington
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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There are variations among Bach instruments, just as there are among any essentially hand made products. For example, when the human hand spins a bell, the day by day differences in the amount of pressure on the tool because the worker is a human being makes every bell unique.
There are no inferior model Bach trumpets per se, just slight variations among various instruments such that one or the other suits the player best. You have to play before buying. |
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EdMann Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2481 Location: The Big Valley
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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theslawdawg wrote: | Jay2015trumpet wrote: | 190 series all the way...any will make your playing easier, just depends on what genre/environment you'll be using it in...ymmv |
What is the 190 all about? Of course I could google it, but rather hear from this group. |
The 190 is essentially the early Elkhart design, if I'm not mistaken. I've played the 37 and the 43, and WOW! The early Elk is my fav horn, and this matches it. Without presuming, check out the commercial models. Their intonation is amazing.
ed
Bach guy |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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It depends on what kind of player you are, what kind of music you are playing, and what kind of resistance you prefer. for example, many great lead players of yore played the 72* including Wayne Bergeron, Allen Vizzuti, and many of the NYC studio players in the '60's and '70's. LA studio man Warren Leuning (RIP) played a standard 43. Chicago lead player Danny Barber plays a standard 37 (last I heard) the same horn played in trumpet studios all over the world. Go figure. I have an old friend, a fine lead, jazz and classical player who plays an Artisian Bb for lead work and prrefers his Xeno for classical. |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Winghorn wrote: | There are no inferior model Bach trumpets per se, just slight variations among various instruments such that one or the other suits the player best. You have to play before buying. |
Sure there are, if you consider the entire product line, not just strads. The TR-whatever stuff is total junk. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Which new Bach models do you recommend right now? |
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DLA wrote: | Which models are the very best right now? I realize the importance of play-testing each horn but I'd like to quickly eliminate inferior models and specifically try Bach's best models right now. Thanks for the advice and opinions. |
I really, really liked a NY 7/7 that I tired a year or two ago. That would be high on my list if I was shopping for a new Bb right now.
I also heard through an acquaintance in Nashville about how great a Mariachi horn [LR19043B iirc] (43 standard weight bronze bell, but with a lightweight valve block) plays after you take off the reverse leadpipe setup and put a stock 25 on it. I realize it isn't something you can walk up and try easily in a music store, but it's really interesting to me as a possible future project.
"The build a bach" thing on their website lets you build something similar, namely a 43 bell with a lightweight block and 25 pipe, but it won't let you specify the bronze bell option. I suspect you could probably get one ordered that way anyway on a one-off thing. You might not have the ability to return it if you didn't like it though. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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RandyTX wrote: | Winghorn wrote: | There are no inferior model Bach trumpets per se, just slight variations among various instruments such that one or the other suits the player best. You have to play before buying. |
Sure there are, if you consider the entire product line, not just strads. The TR-whatever stuff is total junk. |
That's definitely true. I went through a shipment of TR300's and I was NOT impressed with the build quality, valve action, and general QC. Several notches below Yamaha and even Jupiter.
I've never played a TR200 that was worth buying, either - at any price, new or used. Yuck.
We won't even talk about the disaster that is the TR500. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Jon Arnold Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2025
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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I play a Bach Commercial and love it. I also like the 190 37 and the Bach Mariachi trumpet a lot. |
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Winghorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 2159 Location: Olympia, Washington
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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I was referring to the Strad models only, as the OP wanted comments from players who have played a lot of new PROFESSIONAL (emphasis added) Bach models. The TR models are not marketed as professional models. Seemed clear to me... |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2412 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Which new Bach models do you recommend right now? |
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DLA wrote: | I realize that Bach trumpet manufacturing has made some very good instruments over the years and also some no-so-good horns, with quality and craftsmanship declining. |
What are you basing this on? If anything, quality and craftsmanship are on the rise.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2322 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Since the strike and reorganizing of the Bach factory - things have gotten a lot better - focussed again on quality not quantity.
190 series.. 50th Anniversary, 100 anniversary models and the commercial model are excellent..
I've played 37's for decades - picked up a 19037 Anniversary Model and loved it so much that I bought it immediately.
Then on a whim, bought a commercial model, because I was doing a lot more commercial work.. love it, couldn't be happier.
I had the opportunity, last summer to visit the factory, where they had dozens of new trumpets layed out for demo - I literally played 6 tables worth of Bachs (Bb, C, picc) playing them all and at first blush didn't find a single one that I wouldn't concider buying.
Yes, I'm a Bach Endorsing Artist, but that is because after years of playing Bachs I thought I might as well apply to carry that title.
As Ted Waggonner said, "Bach doesn't suck anymore"
You may not like Bach's but the excuse of inconsistecy, "can't find a good one", is no longer relevant. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:47 am Post subject: |
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The model LT180S77 (also known as the New York 7/7) is a wonderful horn everyone seems to love. I played one owned by a friend of mine and I thought it was the most responsive and easiest to play Bach I'd ever played and it produces a beautiful sound, too.
I have never been a Bach player but I collect trumpets and have a Mt. Vernon 37, a Mt. Vernon 43, an Elkhart 72* and an Elkhart 25 large bore so I do have some Bach horns that I used as a comparison. If I was going to buy a new Bach it would be the New York 7/7 for sure.
Disclosure: I'm a jazz improvisation soloist. I never play anything but jazz. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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lgt0412 Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2012 Posts: 462 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:49 am Post subject: |
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I'll echo what many others have said. The 190 models are all great horns. Just depends on you specifically as to which one will be best for the individual. I have owned 2 LR19043Bs and they are 2 of the best horns I have ever played. I have gotten a chance to play a ton of Bachs over 30ish years and the horns (all models) that have been coming out for the last 3-4 years are worlds above the stuff from the previous 10-15 years. Phenomenal horns they are making these days!!!! _________________ Van Laar B6
Bach LR19043B
Kanstul 1600
Conn 38B
Van Laar BR3 Flugel
Blessing Super Artist cornet
Greg Black Mouthpieces |
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boog Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2014 Posts: 247
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Recently got my 2nd Strad I have ever had, a 180/37. Got it in an even trade for an LA Benge C that I bought new back in 1975 or so. I really don't need a C for ANYTHING in the area where I live now (not even church music, as when I grew up, trumpet players were EXPECTED to be able to transpose), and even the local symphony flies in it's players from other areas of the country, so playing opportunities are pretty much limited to community concert band, jazz band, Easter and Christmas gigs, and the (very) occasional studio gig around here!
This Strad 180 was built within the last 3 years according to the serial number. It plays, and sounds right up there with the best trumpets I have ever owned. Originally, I had intended to sell it as Strads are MUCH easier to market than antique C trumpets, and the Benge I had for years was pristine. I could have gotten roughly twice the money for the Bach.
But, after playing it for a few weeks, it has become a keeper!
I would say that Bach's late model instruments play better than the one I had that was made in the mid-90's. Of course, this is a subjective opinion, and you know what they say about opinions!
Cheers, Dave |
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onlyson Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 224 Location: Bartlett, Illinois
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: |
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I had the opportunity to play the 50th Anniversary a couple of years ago at the Chicago trumpet hang. I thought it was one of the best horns I had ever played. And I've owned a LOT of horns in the last 12 years. I should have bought that particular one, because I then ordered one online and it was the tightest blowing horn I've ever experienced. My neck muscles hurt after 30 minutes of playing. It was a very weird experience. So I sent it back and had another sent to me. Same thing.
A year later I tried again with a used 190 from here on TH. The blow was better but the sound was dead. Sent it back. And then last week I played a few notes on one that was at a Conn-Selmer booth at a local concert. Same thing. Tight blow and dead sound.
Don't know what I played at the hang, but it seems to have been an anomaly. God bless you guys that have found ones that work for you. _________________ Del Quadro Grizzly
Yamaha 9335CH
1951 Martin Committee Deluxe #3 Bore
ACB Coppernicus
Couesnon Flugel
Carol Pocket Trumpet |
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