Picking a Cornet

chi2lon · Regular Member Joined: 25 Mar 2018 Posts: 14 Location: UK

Hi Guys,

I'm reasonably new to brass banding (~16 months). My background is tilted much more towards classical trumpet. However, I have really enjoyed playing in the brass band (even contesting hasn't been so bad). I have been borrowing a Sovereign 928GS from my band's set. The serial number puts the production in 1996 which is apparently peak of the lottery years. The one I have been playing isn't a dog, but it is not a great horn. I'm at a point where I'd like to buy my own cornet, and my wife has given me the green light!

I tried a bunch of horns last week (Besson Prestige/Yamaha Neo/Smith-Watkins K2/Eclipse Yellow/Stomvi Titan), and I am going back again in a few weeks to (hopefully) make a decision. I always try to bring an extra set of ears for testing. However, testing horns is very different compared to playing in a section. My biggest concern is spending a small fortune on a horn I personally like only to struggle fitting into a section of mostly Besson. Does anyone have experience with how these horns blend in a section (playing them yourself or with someone who plays them)?

Cheers!
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zaferis · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:08 am Post subject:

I'm thinking that this will be affected by the section that you're trying to blend with.. what setups they're playing and the overall tone of the section. Playing in a Brass Band here in the states, I'm pretty sure the sound concept of the section is different than what you're working with.

As you can see, I'm a Bach Artist and do love the sound I get on my Bach 184 Sheperd's Crook which works very well as a solo instrument and within my Brass Band.

I always liked the sound of Getzen's Eterna series, sound great, great valve action and quite often you can find good used ones on the inexpensive side.

I have played Eclipse and Stomvi's at conferences, and they both play great but I've never taken them to an ensemble to see how they "fit" / "blend"

I am not a fan of Yamaha's, somehting about the sound that doesn't stand up against others - lack of character or something..??

The Bessons I've played had a beautiful sound but other aspects were sketchy - tuning, playability, valve/slide action
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roynj · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065

bach_again · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:16 am Post subject:

My favourite BBB cornet was the old B&H 921.

Many cornets designed today have a trumpet-y nature, which I actually like, but doesn't fit with the BBB sound model.

If I was buying, I wouldn't settle for anything unless it was as good as my old 921. One of my main Bbs is a Stomvi, so would naturally be interested in hearing their cornet, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was trumpet-y.

Yamaha make fantastic horns - I'd be surprised if they didn't have something suitable. I have a Yamaha sop and love it.

Best,
Mike
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kehaulani · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:21 am Post subject:

What is your budget?
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chi2lon · Regular Member Joined: 25 Mar 2018 Posts: 14 Location: UK

TKSop · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:18 am Post subject:

As the others have said, getting something that fits in at band is going to be important.

The Smith-Watkins is bright, but if you're using a typical brass-band type mouthpiece it's tameable and it will fit in okay... and those things are very easy to play, perhaps not always the easiest to bend completely to your will, but make just getting the job done easy indeed.

I like my Eclipse (disclaimer - I'm not unbiased here), and it fits in band absolutely no problems at all for me (or others I've loaned it to from time to time as I'm usually in the suicide seat)... tone is very, very pleasing and the build quality and design is such that you simply feel special playing it (or I do), not quite as effortless as the Smith-Watkins but no harder to play than your average Sovereign either.
If you do decide to go the Eclipse route, I can't recommend visiting Leigh's shop and dealing with him directly enough - wherever possible he'll let you try multiple instruments side by side and he provides an excellent set of "trusted ears" (and will tell you if he likes you on what you already have - honestly, I've seen it happen more than once!).

The Yamaha's play great, but they leave me a little cold - I can't quite put a finger on it, but although they play great the character just doesn't quite resonate with me for some reason.

Bach and Getzen, as noted, play very well but often just don't quite seem to sit quite right... I guess it depends on the band you're playing for (sounds the other players have, what level the band is at, etc).

p76 · Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:48 pm Post subject:

The Yamaha is always a good "safe" choice - not sure what the pricing is like in the UK at the moment, but they are, here in OZ, the best "bang for the buck" cornet. I have found that they are also easier to play than the new Bessons. BUT, the Bessons do sound better. Either would be a good fit in any cornet section.

Getzen and Bach, as others have said, just never quite seem to fit. I have a Getzen Capri, and it's fine on a march or something where you need to be bright, but doesn't sound like my Besson.

As for the S-W, never even seen one down here at the bottom of the world....

Good Luck in your search, and I hope you find the right horn for you.

Cheers,
Roger
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etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6177

Yamaha Xeno or Yamaha Neo, in yellow brass or gold brass would be a good (and sonorous) choice. Or, try all the Besson cornets you can lay your hands on, starting with Besson 1000. Great horn for very little money.

chi2lon · Regular Member Joined: 25 Mar 2018 Posts: 14 Location: UK

Has anyone come across Stomvi or Shires in the wild?
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Bb - Schagerl Hans Gansch
Laskey 75MC
Eb/D - Yamaha 9610
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Picc - Stomvi Elite
Monette B2 FL R6/FLG2
Cornet - Stomvi Titan
Flugel - Adams F2

GordonH · Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:50 am Post subject:

Here is my view:

If you play on smaller, tighter mouthpieces you will probably prefer the Yamaha Neo or Xeno. This is because they are mellower sounding than the Besson Prestige and a bit freer blowing.

But

If you play on a more open mouthpiece you will prefer the Besson Prestige because it is a bit naturally brighter and has a bit more resistance. The prestige also has heavy valve caps and buttons which you can experiment with to change the feel. I use a single heavy cap on the third valve and the heavy finger buttons on all three.

The Yamaha is likely to be a bit cheaper if you are in the USA. Over here they are not much different in price.

One odd thing about the Prestige is that the bell is definitely bigger throat than the sovereign even though it is supposed to be the same mandrel, with just the ends a bit different and some balling out at the valve end. I have a Humes and Berg cup mute that gives a 5mm gap with any sovereign 928 but is too small for my Prestige. It just goes fully in and won't stick. Would need to have thicker corks fitted.
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GordonH · Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:51 am Post subject:

Oh and the Prestige case is rubbish. Who makes a case that has a mute compartment that won't take a cup mute?
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Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

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Steve A · Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:35 am Post subject:

Dale Proctor · Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:21 am Post subject:

boog · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Jun 2014 Posts: 247

Jay2015trumpet · Regular Member Joined: 29 May 2015 Posts: 74

I found a 6335S Shepherd crook cornet on eBay not too long ago that was quite a forgiving horn. I use a Stork 7B with it and there's plenty of core/sparkle/character etc. The feedback to the player seems different than from a Bach, though. YMMV.

jhatpro · Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:19 pm Post subject:

Eclipse, definitely!
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khedger · Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:48 pm Post subject:

Adams makes a wide range of cornets and their instruments are excellent. Definitely check them out if you get a chance!

Rapier232 · Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:22 pm Post subject:

Eclipse or Smith-Watkins K2. Yamaha Neo isn’t bad, either.
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Andy Del · Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:07 am Post subject:

Everyone is different, has different opinions, taste in response, etc. That tends to debunk all the clap trap about matching instruments etc. etc.

I would go find the cornet you like playing the most. I have two Schilkes (Bb & C) plus an old Olds Recording. I have zero issue sing any of these to blend with dies in the wool brass band types.

Sections of trumpets and cornets all around the worlds manage to blend on different instruments and mouthpieces and mutes all the time. That brass bands still refuse to believe this says a lot about them.

cheers

Andy
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