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Mouthpiece slipping?



 
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wohlrab
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Joined: 30 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:55 am    Post subject: Mouthpiece slipping? Reply with quote

Hi all, weird question.

I play quite a bit off center (it's the most resonant place for me) which for me works great.

I've noticed recently that when I practice lots of tonguing exercises that the mouthpiece will move up and slightly onto my bottom lip and that when I don't practice tonguing as much that it will slide down putting the top of the mouthpiece on my top lip. This occurs over the course of a few days/weeks, it's not instantaneous. Any thoughts on getting it to seat properly and not move around?

I have a great teacher. He and I meet next week.

Thanks!
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khedger
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Mouthpiece slipping? Reply with quote

wohlrab wrote:
Hi all, weird question.

I play quite a bit off center (it's the most resonant place for me) which for me works great.

I've noticed recently that when I practice lots of tonguing exercises that the mouthpiece will move up and slightly onto my bottom lip and that when I don't practice tonguing as much that it will slide down putting the top of the mouthpiece on my top lip. This occurs over the course of a few days/weeks, it's not instantaneous. Any thoughts on getting it to seat properly and not move around?

I have a great teacher. He and I meet next week.

Thanks!


It's hard to tell anything without seeing you play, but the first thing that comes to mind is that you might be moving your jaw around too much when you're tonguing. It's a pretty common mistake. If your jaw is not moving around on you, then you'll probably need to talk to your teacher, who can observe you playing and try to suss out what's happening....
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Shaft
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people speak of “mouthpiece grip”. Also there are things referred to as the “bite” and “shoulder” of the mouthpiece if memory serves. The rim contour can have an affect on your placement and feel too.

Ask your instructor about those or look them up and it may help.
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wohlrab
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Khedger,

Can you describe more what you mean about the jaw motion while tonguing? Do you mean lots of motion in the process of tonguing or just that I'm not keeping my jaw in a set place every time a play?

Shaft,

Love the rim of my mouthpiece. It's very middle of the road. Mouthpieces with a sharper bite aren't nice to me with flexibility. I'm not running into issues with mouthpiece sliding in the moment, just shifting back and forth over the course of a couple of weeks.

Little more background: I'm a (semi) working pro with a somewhat recent embouchure change off to the side. It's going great and everything is working fine, it's just annoying that my mouthpiece hasn't found a sweet spot vertically.
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This very much sounds as if you are going along, practicing, gigging, etc and then notice all of a sudden things have moved... ad then you take steps to fix it.

It is great you are mindful and fix things once you notice, however, I suspect that you need to be mindful all the time. That means, every time you put it to your lips, you are consciously placing tings where you want them to be. It will get easier in time, and eventually the thought process becomes autonomous ands you no longer have an issue.

BUT, you need to know that you are placing the mpc in the right place... that is for you and your teacher.

cheers

Andy
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khedger
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wohlrab wrote:
Hi Khedger,

Can you describe more what you mean about the jaw motion while tonguing? Do you mean lots of motion in the process of tonguing or just that I'm not keeping my jaw in a set place every time a play?

Little more background: I'm a (semi) working pro with a somewhat recent embouchure change off to the side. It's going great and everything is working fine, it's just annoying that my mouthpiece hasn't found a sweet spot vertically.


Well I meant moving your jaw too much when you were tonguing, however you've now given more information about what's actually happening and it doesn't sound like this applies. If you're just not able to get a consistent 'seat' for the mouthpiece, then I'd suggest hitting the books with a lot of practice of fundamental exercises concentrating on making sure your mouthpiece placement is consistent throughout.
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wohlrab
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Del wrote:
This very much sounds as if you are going along, practicing, gigging, etc and then notice all of a sudden things have moved... ad then you take steps to fix it.

It is great you are mindful and fix things once you notice, however, I suspect that you need to be mindful all the time. That means, every time you put it to your lips, you are consciously placing tings where you want them to be. It will get easier in time, and eventually the thought process becomes autonomous ands you no longer have an issue.

BUT, you need to know that you are placing the mpc in the right place... that is for you and your teacher.

cheers

Andy



I dig I dig. I'll work on this. Thanks for the advice!
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76strad
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also agree that just spending quality diligent practice time on the horn with that mouthpiece is the best approach. When I was younger I was unaware of the minor jaw movement "chewing" when articulating. However, in college I did come across Pickett Mouthpieces. I had Peter Pickett make me a raw copper mpc cup. It feels very tacky, and the rim was very soft compared to what I was using prior. When I was a teacher, I was always very hesitant to recommend making an equipment change to "fix" an issue. If you're looking for a more tacky mouthpiece, that was the best thing since sliced bread that I came across in my search.

I'm not recommending an equipment change, just throwing in my 2 cents for a material that never slid around once I seated the mouthpiece (regardless of how sloppy wet I got in performances)
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nonethewiser
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 to Andy Del's advice
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Denny Schreffler
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

76strad wrote:
... I had Peter Pickett make me a raw copper mpc cup. It feels very tacky, and the rim was very soft compared to what I was using prior.

... If you're looking for a more tacky mouthpiece, that was the best thing since sliced bread that I came across in my search.

... just throwing in my 2 cents for a material that never slid around once I seated the mouthpiece (regardless of how sloppy wet I got in performances)


Including all the other good points already mentioned …

Different finishes and bare metals have different “slipperiness” as do different surface conditions of the lips.

Gold, for example, is slipperier than silver. Raw brass (not necessarily recommended), as another example, has more grip on the skin (nothing to do with rim profiles) than anything that I've tried. Wet lips, dry lips, oily skin, facial hair of different thickness/coarseness/length. All, and more, can affect unwanted repositioning of the mpc. It'll be easier and cheaper to try to find a stainless steel (which is grippier than silver though probably not as grippy as copper -- don't know) mpc that fits you than to have a custom piece made.

And, try using a small mirror that is close enough to really see what’s happening while practicing. I’ve jury-rigged a couple of things at times but I’m about ready to try this product from JoRal. It looks like it might sit higher than I want, but I’ll see.
https://www.wwbw.com/Jo-Ral-Embouchure-Mirror-472839.wwbw


-Denny
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BobList
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look into Reinhardt's Track Routine. It basically has you doing the same figure slurred, legato tongue, then marcato tongue, ascending and descending, without removing the horn from your face. The piece may not be "slipping", you may be subconsciously adjusting for tongued notes. We tend to attack the note differently for a slurred figure than we do a staccato figure,,, this melts all 3 together in one sitting, and will take care of placement issues. It works great for me. If that's not your problem, it's still a great drill to have in your arsenal.
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