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Difference between Yam YTR8445IIGS and YTR8445GS


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Harry Hilgers
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:29 pm    Post subject: Difference between Yam YTR8445IIGS and YTR8445GS Reply with quote

Question on a Yamaha C trumpet:
Does anybody know what the difference is between the Yamaha YTR8445IIGS and the YTR8445GS.

I have tried to find a contact email address for Yamaha, but I can’t find it anywhere.

Thanks much.

Cheers
Harry
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was at a clinic with Wayne Tanabe about a year and a half ago. He was asked the same question. The answer: just about everything is different. You'll just have to play them. The changes were a result of the research that went into the Artist models.

If the new one plays anything like the series I New York it should be a terrific horn. Bout three years ago I played a series I NY that I thought was the best C I'd ever played.
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Harry Hilgers
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Kennedy wrote:
I was at a clinic with Wayne Tanabe about a year and a half ago. He was asked the same question. The answer: just about everything is different. You'll just have to play them. The changes were a result of the research that went into the Artist models.

If the new one plays anything like the series I New York it should be a terrific horn. Bout three years ago I played a series I NY that I thought was the best C I'd ever played.

Hi Ed
Thanks so much for your reply.

Problem is I will not have a chance to play both. I can buy a new YTR8445IIGS for a good price meaning the merchant will take my Eb cornet for a very fair trade-in price.

Which one of these two Yam C models is the later version? I would presume it is the YTR8445IIGS.
Does the II mean series 2?

Thanks again.
Harry
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does the II mean series 2?


I believe so.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Harry

The II will refer to the series 2, but it the II doesn't appear on the trumpet at all.

Regarding the following features, the taller main slide water key gutter is the most obvious to see on the trumpet.

https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/winds/trumpets/c_trumpets/ytr-8445s/features.html#product-tabs

I have had only the briefest of goes on the first generation version (my orchestra colleague plays one), and have never played the second generation version. I however play the Xeno II Bb.

If the difference is equivalent to that between the Xeno I and II Bbs, which I presume that it is, since the features are the same for both the Bb and Cs, I'd be happy to go with the Xeno II, as I feel that the changes between the Xeno I and Xeno II are improvements.

I had to reduce the mouthpiece gap a little on my Xeno II from that I was playing on my Bach 37, but after dialling in the gap it became a great player, with a very even response throughout the registers. I imagine that the Xeno II C also has a very even response.

The brief go I had on my colleagues Xeno I C was my first ever go on a C trumpet, so I couldn't compare it to anything else. My C is a Kanstul made French Besson Classic (I bought it as new old stock), simply because I could get this new for well under half (nearer a third) of the new price of the Xeno II C. I have no idea how they compare.

Personally I wouldn't worry about comparing the Xeno II C to a Xeno I C, and would just try the one that is available for a good trade in price, and see what you think.

All the best

Lou
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Irving
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Xenos II has a pitchfork stamped on the bell. The original Xeno doesn't.
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veery715
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irving wrote:
The Xenos II has a pitchfork stamped on the bell. The original Xeno doesn't.
It's called a tuning fork. A pitchfork is a farm implement, famously featured in the painting American Gothic.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veery715 wrote:
It's called a tuning fork. A pitchfork is a farm implement, famously featured in the painting American Gothic.


You are right, of course, and a pitchfork is used to 'pitch' hay. It's a funny coincidence, though, that "pitch" is also a synonym for intonation.
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Christian K. Peters
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:10 pm    Post subject: Differences between Reply with quote

Hello all,
You really need to talk to a Yamaha rep in person. Working in a music store a few years back, I was explained the difference in the Bb trumpets. Redesign of the valve casing, leadpipe and most noticeable, the waterkey chimney...Longer on the II's. Now, I don't know how any of that relates to the C trumpets, so talk to a knowledgeable rep...To get the true answer.
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Harry Hilgers
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Differences between Reply with quote

Christian K. Peters wrote:
Hello all,
You really need to talk to a Yamaha rep in person.

Christian, thanks for your reply.

Good advice but in this case not very practical. Yamaha reps seem to be hard to find WHEN YOU NEED THEM.

If I would be asking questions on a Schilke or Kanstul horn, I can pick up the phone and speak within minutes with the right person. Heck, I can't even find a USA Yamaha phone number.

In this particular case, I had "minutes" to either jump on the deal or let it go.

Lastly, I am buying this particular C-horn from this particular merchant only, because he was the only one I could find that allowed me to trade-in my Eb cornet at a very fair trade-in price. This, with the fair price on the C, is the only way I can afford the C.

Thanks again for your reply.

Cheers,
Harry


.
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Harry Hilgers
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irving wrote:
The Xenos II has a pitchfork stamped on the bell. The original Xeno doesn't.

Irving, thanks for pointing this out. The horn is supposed to be delivered tomorrow. The very first thing I will check for is the pitchfork (tuning fork) on the bell.

Cheers,
Harry
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C Yam YTR8445IIGS
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Harry Hilgers
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
veery715 wrote:
It's called a tuning fork. A pitchfork is a farm implement, famously featured in the painting American Gothic.


You are right, of course, and a pitchfork is used to 'pitch' hay. It's a funny coincidence, though, that "pitch" is also a synonym for intonation.


Ha ha, I never even thought of it that way.

So this begs the following silly question:

What is the the difference between a "pitch fork" and a "pitchfork"?

The number of tines

Cheers,
Harry
_________________
Bb Kanstul 1500A 1537 991 140
C Yam YTR8445IIGS
Flugel Kanstul 1525
Bugles Kanstul 50, 60
Cornets Smith-Watkins K2(Kanstul) Bach184G
Pieces Kanstul JimNew LN X&LPiece Curry Schilke
Baritone King 625
Tenor/Alto Kanstul 4-valve
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Harry Hilgers
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
Hi Harry
.............
Personally I wouldn't worry about comparing the Xeno II C to a Xeno I C, and would just try the one that is available for a good trade in price, and see what you think...............

Lou


Hi Lou, long time no speak ....

Thanks for the always good, complete and substantial information.

The C is supposed to arrive tomorrow.

I will report back.

Cheers,
Harry
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C Yam YTR8445IIGS
Flugel Kanstul 1525
Bugles Kanstul 50, 60
Cornets Smith-Watkins K2(Kanstul) Bach184G
Pieces Kanstul JimNew LN X&LPiece Curry Schilke
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Tenor/Alto Kanstul 4-valve
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:25 am    Post subject: Re: Differences between Reply with quote

Christian K. Peters wrote:
Hello all,
You really need to talk to a Yamaha rep in person. Working in a music store a few years back, I was explained the difference in the Bb trumpets. Redesign of the valve casing, leadpipe and most noticeable, the waterkey chimney...Longer on the II's. Now, I don't know how any of that relates to the C trumpets, so talk to a knowledgeable rep...To get the true answer.


Hi Christian K. Peters

Looking on the Yamaha website, the differentiating features of the Xeno II C are those that you mention above for the Bb.

However in all honesty, I feel that you can read specifications and features all day, which I too enjoy doing, but in reality, you never really know until you have the horn in your hand.

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
Kanstul F Besson C
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
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Bach Strad 184ML
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:33 am    Post subject: Re: Differences between Reply with quote

Harry Hilgers wrote:

Lastly, I am buying this particular C-horn from this particular merchant only, because he was the only one I could find that allowed me to trade-in my Eb cornet at a very fair trade-in price. This, with the fair price on the C, is the only way I can afford the C.


Hi Harry

These are the same circumstances under which I bought my Xeno II Bb, except that I traded in a Bb cornet. I too wouldn't have been able to have afforded my Xeno II at that time, without the very good trade in price for my Sovereign cornet.

I was lucky enough to be able to try my Xeno II at home for I believe a week. Once I decided to keep it, they arranged for their courier to collect my Sovereign, and once they were happy that it was in the condition I described, I paid the extra to keep the Xeno II. Naturally they had my credit card number from the off-set.

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
Kanstul F Besson C
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry Hilgers wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
Hi Harry
.............
Personally I wouldn't worry about comparing the Xeno II C to a Xeno I C, and would just try the one that is available for a good trade in price, and see what you think...............

Lou


Hi Lou, long time no speak ....

Hi Harry

Yes, I haven't been active on here for a while until the last week or so. I've been busy with other things. I've still been practising/rehearsing/gigging the same amount, just have had less free time for forums.


Thanks for the always good, complete and substantial information.

You are always very welcome.

The C is supposed to arrive tomorrow.

I really hope that you like it. I can't imagine that you could really go wrong with a Xeno, of either version, although I personally feel that the Xeno II Bb is an improvement on a the Xeno I Bb, the Xeno I Bb is a perfectly good trumpet. I played its predecessor, the 6335HII (I had the 6335HGII), and it was also a good Bb.

I fully appreciate that I keep harping on about it, but I would really advise dialling in the mouthpiece gap. It has made a big difference to my Xeno II Bb. I have Jim New's gap modulator, and the Xeno II is in my opinion a lot more sensitive to changes in mouthpiece gap than my Bach 37, and has an obvious sweet spot for me, whereas my Bach 37 plays well with a wider range of gap.


Additionally, if the C trumpet has two third slide stop positions, I'd put it in the furthest one for the reasons explained in my recent thread about this.

I will report back.

I look forward to hearing how you like your new C.

Cheers,
Harry

All the best

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
Kanstul F Besson C
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
- Denis Wick 4B underpart/my 3C rim
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veery715
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry Hilgers wrote:
Halflip wrote:
veery715 wrote:
It's called a tuning fork. A pitchfork is a farm implement, famously featured in the painting American Gothic.


You are right, of course, and a pitchfork is used to 'pitch' hay. It's a funny coincidence, though, that "pitch" is also a synonym for intonation.


Ha ha, I never even thought of it that way.

So this begs the following silly question:

What is the the difference between a "pitch fork" and a "pitchfork"?

The number of tines

Cheers,
Harry

So it's a matter of intInation!
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Harry Hilgers
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veery715 wrote:
Harry Hilgers wrote:
Halflip wrote:
veery715 wrote:
It's called a tuning fork. A pitchfork is a farm implement, famously featured in the painting American Gothic.


You are right, of course, and a pitchfork is used to 'pitch' hay. It's a funny coincidence, though, that "pitch" is also a synonym for intonation.


Ha ha, I never even thought of it that way.

So this begs the following silly question:

What is the the difference between a "pitch fork" and a "pitchfork"?

The number of tines

Cheers,
Harry

So it's a matter of intInation!

This definitely qualifies as the best post of the year so far.
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Bb Kanstul 1500A 1537 991 140
C Yam YTR8445IIGS
Flugel Kanstul 1525
Bugles Kanstul 50, 60
Cornets Smith-Watkins K2(Kanstul) Bach184G
Pieces Kanstul JimNew LN X&LPiece Curry Schilke
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can one make a pitchfork with three tines?
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Harry Hilgers
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

etc-etc wrote:
Can one make a pitchfork with three tines?

https://www.google.com/search?q=pitchfork&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjglZKZh-nfAhUHDq0KHf5QA64Q_AUoAXoECAsQAQ&biw=414&bih=617
_________________
Bb Kanstul 1500A 1537 991 140
C Yam YTR8445IIGS
Flugel Kanstul 1525
Bugles Kanstul 50, 60
Cornets Smith-Watkins K2(Kanstul) Bach184G
Pieces Kanstul JimNew LN X&LPiece Curry Schilke
Baritone King 625
Tenor/Alto Kanstul 4-valve
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