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Al Hirt...RCA....Paris


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rothman
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:51 am    Post subject: Al Hirt...RCA....Paris Reply with quote

Paul Cacia recalled when he toured with Al that on good nights, "He played things that weren't on the horn."

1961 Paris is probably one of those. For ex., double and triple tonguing are called on but without 'seams' or transitions...making them all blend into eachother and flawlessly.

Gypsy elements woven into Dixieland.. Seductive, hair raising sound effects in the right places:



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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, the great Al Hirt. You know, it's sad, but when I mention his name around some of today's younger trumpet players they haven't a clue who he was. Such a shame because, as the video posted here shows, he could do amazing things with the horn. I had the great pleasure of meeting him, and Pete Fountain, in New Orleans many years ago. Al couldn't have been nicer, and I will never forget the grip of those huge hands of his when he shook mine.
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GeorgeB
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Comeback
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for sharing the link. Hirt is one of my all time favorites. Just yesterday, while plodding along on my treadmill, I was watching youtubes of his performances. What a fine musician and entertainer!

Jim
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think, like so many others, he was actually shunned by the 'real jazzers' because he committed the cardinal sin of being popular, literally a household name for a brief period in US history.

Unforgivable.
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Tony Scodwell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject: Jumbo Reply with quote

I had met Al Hirt in the early seventies when he was playing and endorsing LeBlanc trumpets. A good friend had left the Getzen Company after many years helping Doc Severinsen with his early concert career at Getzen and had moved to the Holton Company which imported LeBlanc instruments and was involved with Al Hirt out on Lake Michigan filming Miller High Life commercials on a yacht. My friend was a fellow by the name of Sandy Sandberg and in addition to Al Hirt, he was responsible for the Holton company getting Maynard, Pete Fountain and Miles on board (Holton re-introduced the Martin line). Sandy would regale me with stories of he and Al doing these commercials and consuming all the Miller beer on board. Later on here in Las Vegas I got called to play in a big band on our night off at a (sort of) resort on the edge of town, reputed to be a mafia owned place. It was a big band dance gig and who should show up but Al Hirt saying he was hired to play fourth trumpet. He was with his son and after showing him my "Scod-Well" drinking mute (and downing a few samples) I asked Al if he'd play some lead and all the solos. He was quite shy about this and pretty much just sat in the section all night. He certainly covered the parts but I never did figure out why he was there in the first place. To add to a previous comment here about so few kids now who know about him, I have found the same with Harry James and Doc Severinsen to a lesser extent. Sad commentary on what the teachers are NOT teaching or the apathy amongst the students.

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rothman
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeorgeB wrote:
..I had the great pleasure of meeting him, and Pete Fountain, in New Orleans many years ago. Al couldn't have been nicer, and I will never forget the grip of those huge hands of his when he shook mine.


Wish I had shaken his hand, but your post reminded me of lesser known Don Goldie who possessed similar all around ability, at one time physically mugged and beaten for a watch, with a recovery in the hospital. Had they tried thaton Al, and maybe grasped by the neck, neither might have had much of a recovery. Al's horns on album covers could be mistaken for pocket trumpets.

Tony Scodwell wrote:
..Later on here in Las Vegas I got called to play in a big band on our night off at a (sort of) resort on the edge of town, reputed to be a mafia owned place. It was a big band dance gig and who should show up but Al Hirt saying he was hired to play fourth trumpet. He was with his son and after showing him my "Scod-Well" drinking mute (and downing a few samples) I asked Al if he'd play some lead and all the solos. He was quite shy about this and pretty much just sat in the section all night. He certainly covered the parts but I never did figure out why he was there in the first place. To add to a previous comment here about so few kids now who know about him, I have found the same with Harry James and Doc Severinsen to a lesser extent. Sad commentary on what the teachers are NOT teaching or the apathy amongst the students.


To some degree he kept up his playing but he never really was the same player after the brick came in on a float-gig in New Orleans. His sound was there but fuzzier, and his tonguing, volume, and attacks suffered without a doubt. Notes seemed to splat much more readily on him. But during his prime while not as talented as Harry James...he managed to create an impression that he was from another planet.
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Steve A
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Al Hirt...RCA....Paris Reply with quote

rothman wrote:
Paul Cacia recalled when he toured with Al that on good nights, "He played things that weren't on the horn."

1961 Paris is probably one of those. For ex., double and triple tonguing are called on but without 'seams' or transitions...making them all blend into eachother and flawlessly.

Gypsy elements woven into Dixieland.. Seductive, hair raising sound effects in the right places:



Link


Wow - that's great! Thanks for sharing.
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rothman
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:49 am    Post subject: Re: Al Hirt...RCA....Paris Reply with quote

Steve A wrote:

Wow - that's great! Thanks for sharing.


Thanks are to you and others for weighing in, with the ability to appreciate his playing. Clearly, not all the material is top shelf. Some might think RCA engineers enabled him to sound at his best...Bourbon Parade : Features Cougar Nelson on trombone, a type of old school powerhouse that immediately sets a high bar.
Not easy to follow him on a chorus..


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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main thing is that most true musicians know how great Al was and he will be remembered by them. Thank you for this thread on a great trumpet player whose picture hangs on my music room wall along with the likes of Harry James and Louis Armstrong.
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rothman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This arrangement can seem somewhat dated or corny in the modern age...but the phrasing, core / vibrato, depth of feeling, is on the order of a masterpiece.


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khedger
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard a few Hirt records when I was younger and I saw him on tv a few times. I've since seen some video clips of him playing. I always thought he was a great trumpet player who for me, played horribly corny material. Thus, I was never that interested in listening to him.
I know a lot of you disagree, and that's okay. I have the same reaction to Harry James. Awesome trumpet player, but I just have no interest in what he played.
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rothman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khedger wrote:
I heard a few Hirt records when I was younger and I saw him on tv a few times. I've since seen some video clips of him playing. I always thought he was a great trumpet player who for me, played horribly corny material. Thus, I was never that interested in listening to him.
I know a lot of you disagree, and that's okay...


I understand the point but question whether 'Fancy Pants' or 'Sugar Lips' fall into the same category as 'Fly me to the Moon', or Borodin's 'Stranger in Paradise'.

A lot of jazz oriented players gravitate to idea of hipper stuff out there. Corny, in and of itself is not always a bad thing...for ex, the Clancy brothers of Ireland may strike some as corny, but there's a lot of passion in them. If you're looking for any kind of emotional release in music, the very hip stuff from Miles for ex., will start to get old and quickly. An absolute fine musician, but if I were shipwrecked and given a choice of fifty influential Miles records -- verses one or two Al Hirt records -- then two it is.

Charlie Parker never listened to 'any' jazz in his home, according to wife Chan, preferring the melody of an Opera singer, Classical repertoires, and what have you. Probably no one was hipper than him, yet his ear was drawn to a visceral quality, drama, much more than the cerebral.
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khedger
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rothman wrote:
khedger wrote:
I heard a few Hirt records when I was younger and I saw him on tv a few times. I've since seen some video clips of him playing. I always thought he was a great trumpet player who for me, played horribly corny material. Thus, I was never that interested in listening to him.
I know a lot of you disagree, and that's okay...


I understand the point but question whether 'Fancy Pants' or 'Sugar Lips' fall into the same category as 'Fly me to the Moon', or Borodin's 'Stranger in Paradise'.

A lot of jazz oriented players gravitate to idea of hipper stuff out there. Corny, in and of itself is not always a bad thing...for ex, the Clancy brothers of Ireland may strike some as corny, but there's a lot of passion in them. If you're looking for any kind of emotional release in music, the very hip stuff from Miles for ex., will start to get old and quickly. An absolute fine musician, but if I were shipwrecked and given a choice of fifty influential Miles records -- verses one or two Al Hirt records -- then two it is.

Charlie Parker never listened to 'any' jazz in his home, according to wife Chan, preferring the melody of an Opera singer, Classical repertoires, and what have you. Probably no one was hipper than him, yet his ear was drawn to a visceral quality, drama, much more than the cerebral.


I find your drawing of a distinct dichotomy between "melody","visceral quality and drama" and "hip music as cerebral" to be highly suspect. If you can't hear drama, melody and the visceral nature of Miles Davis or Charlie Parker, then I feel sorry for you.
I think what we're really talking about here is just a matter of taste. You're entitled to yours, and if that means being subjugated to an existence of Al Hirt records and coconuts, then so be it = Until then, I'll continue to waste my time with those unmusical Miles Davis records.....
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rothman
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khedger wrote:
I find your drawing of a distinct dichotomy between "melody","visceral quality and drama" and "hip music as cerebral" to be highly suspect. If you can't hear drama, melody and the visceral nature of Miles Davis or Charlie Parker, then I feel sorry for you.


Have you ever wondered when asked by an interviewer about his 'best' recording, that he always said 'Just Friends'? Many thought it strange he would rate this his best work, since it was not a bop classic of any kind, and had strings on it. But -- his emotive delivery is supreme from start to finish. I think you would agree with that..

It's well documented that 'Birth of the Cool' ushered in a less frenetic, smoother overall vibe, with Miles at the forefront. It offered a pleasant atmosphere, and until Bitches Brew he kept to that formula. Is it unfair to suggest that 50's thru 60's Miles are a mix of introspection, intelligence, concentration, and mystique ? I've never equated those elements with depth of feeling.

At the time of this recording health problems were overwhelming, but what he managed is without a doubt phenomenal.


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Last edited by rothman on Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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khedger
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rothman wrote:
khedger wrote:
I find your drawing of a distinct dichotomy between "melody","visceral quality and drama" and "hip music as cerebral" to be highly suspect. If you can't hear drama, melody and the visceral nature of Miles Davis or Charlie Parker, then I feel sorry for you.


Have you ever wondered when asked by an interviewer about his 'best' recording, that he always said 'Just Friends' ? Many thought it strange he would rate this his best work, since it was not a bop classic of any kind, and had strings on it. But -- his emotive delivery is supreme from start to finish. I think you would agree with that..

It's well documented that 'Birth of the Cool' ushered in a less frenetic, smoother overall vibe, with Miles at the forefront. It offered a pleasant atmosphere, and until Bitches Brew he kept to that formula. Is it unfair to suggest that 50's thru 60's Miles are a mix of introspection, intelligence, concentration, and mystique ? I've never equated those elements with depth of feeling.

At the time of this recording health problems were overwhelming, but what he managed is without a doubt phenomenal.

I'm really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but it's getting difficult. Bird cited 'Just Friends' as his favorite recording. There are many reasons why he may have chosen this cut, but that doesn't mean we can immediately dismiss the rest of his work!
To say that Miles kept to a 'formula' introduced with BOTC until Bitches Brew belies a total lack of knowledge or understanding of his work. To then make say that music that is 'a mix of introspection, intelligence, concentration and mystique' are not elements with depth of feeling is simply ludicrous.
Look, you like Al Hirt. I get it. You'd rather hear a nice tune than something more exploratative. Okay, to each his own. But if you want to discuss serious music then you need to understand what you're talking about. And you don't.
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rothman
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khedger wrote:
..But if you want to discuss serious music then you need to understand what you're talking about. And you don't.


That's fine, and glad to have your thoughts here. ..For educational purposes and if it is not a nuisance, can you mention a recording of Miles' playing that shares anything musically in common with this, or that you admire every bit as much :


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miles Davis - "Someday My Prince Will Come"
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khedger wrote:

I know a lot of you disagree, and that's okay. I have the same reaction to Harry James. Awesome trumpet player, but I just have no interest in what he played.

Curious what you think of this. If you like it I recommend checking out the album it's from Horn A Plenty - I believe the whole thing is up on Youtube. If you don't like it you simply don't have the Al Hirt appreciation gene.


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khedger
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I just don't have the gene. Great trumpet playing and I love Billy May's work. The music though is, corny to me. I see the label 'Easy Listening' in the upper right hand corner of the album cover image, and imho it's spot on.
So, excellent playing and presentation, but I don't want to sit and listen to it. I could say the same thing for Lawrence Welk, Jackie Gleason, Perry Como, Les Elgart and many others.....
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it takes some bit of acceptance, or maybe maturity, or humility, to get past the the fact that the music is generally corny, but within that overall cornyness there often times are nuggets that are worth your time. Kind of like phil woods on "just the way you are" or any of thousands of examples.
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