Bad Advice

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

I was reading a post in the horn section and someone wrote that the horn wasn't working because he was playing low on the pitch, which was bad advice.

That got me thinking about the things we do because our teacher or someone really good told us to. For me, I take all the advice I get, put it in a jar, shake it up and, come out with my own opinion. Maybe that's why I don't play at a higher level?

Here are a couple of the things I've been told over the years by famous players:

Play low on the pitch. The sound will be fatter and the tuning will be better.
Play in the center of the note for the best sound.
The trumpet is a masculine instrument. Grip the valves.
Never grip the trumpet. It has to vibrate in your hands.
Smile as you go up. It's like pulling on a balloon to make it go higher.
Never smile. you will get a thin sound, like when you pull on a balloon.
Always pucker when you play.
Relax when playing. never tense up.
High notes are all about compression.
If you can't play it on B-flat a picc. won't help.
Get a picc. it will really help.
You have to roll your bottom lip in.
Don't roll your lip. just pucker.

The list is endless. At my age, now I just pick up the trumpet and play. When things get hard, I take a day off. Oh, that's another one.
Take a day off every week.
Don't take time off, you need consistency.

I think there is no correct way to play. Even the way we interpret the music. As a teacher, we can give hints and as a student, we should try as many different ways possible.

I've taught a few HS students. I think with success. I would love to know what the college teacher changed when they got there.
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Joe Spitzer
Monroe Ct.

GeorgeB · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:18 am Post subject:

Great post. I've certainly had my share of conflicting advice in my early years of playing ( 50s and 60s ). But since my comeback after a 50 year hiatus, I've been given good and bad advice again, but past experience has enabled me to separate the wheat from the chaff.
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GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
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1938-39 Olds Recording
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1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet

VetPsychWars · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:36 am Post subject:

I am by no means a teacher or a world-class player but I did give advice once. The man was trying to play and he was visibly one big ball of tension. A couple of metaphors later ("let the air just fall out of the horn, don't push it") and he was much improved. Giving someone an example of a rich, vibrant, relaxed tone certainly helps too.

There are likely hundreds of different visualizations of how a person plays. I think most people don't have enough body sense to know what they're actually doing while they play. When those people give advice, goddess help you!

Tom
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TKSop · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:18 am Post subject:

I draw a slightly different conclusion...

There are loads of "right ways" - the key is therefore to find the right "right way" for you.
Or in other words, try things that work for great players by all means... And keep the ones that work for you.

boog · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Jun 2014 Posts: 247

Started out playing on back in the 4th grade. We had no school elementary band program, so I was with my private teacher, who had run away from home when he was 16 and joined the circus as a trumpet player! He was a terrific player, had taught my dad when my dad was a kid, and by the time I was in the 6th grade he had me in Arban's and playing things like "Carnival of Venice". Heck, I could hit high C's and thought nothing of it! "Trouble" was, he had me on a Rudy Muck "Cushion Rim" mouthpiece (some of you know what I mean) .I don't remember what model it was, but I could scream as on that piece!

Then came the 7th grade, and my soon-to-be high school band director was finally able to establish classes at my elementary school (1-8 grades). He was a great guy, a musical mentor for years, and taught me a lot, but when he saw my Rudy Muck, he had a Hissy Fit (as we used to say in the South)! I absolutely MUST be changed to a Bach 7c...(still have that piece, a Mt. Vernon). Well, there went my range, and I struggled with that for years after. He meant well, but it was a BAD move for me, in retrospect.

My first pro gig (that I actually got paid for) was with my college trumpet teacher, who was a pro trombonist. I sat next to a trumpet player in his big band, and this guy played out of the corner of his mouth! Wow, was he a great player! Doing it "wrong".

Over the years, how many players on all instruments have I observed doing things "wrong", and could play marvelously? Guitar players are among the worst! Thumbs in the way, wrist position horrible, etc.. Brass players that had "weird" embouchures, and the list goes on...

It all depends on the player, how badly does he or she want to play well? Advice is great, a good teacher is necessary, and there ARE established pedagogy procedures for all instruments, but changing things that are working, maybe not so great. Try things, but don't become rigid and dogmatic.

Adapt, Improvise, and Overcome! As always, YMMV.

Cheers, Dave

bnsd · Veteran Member Joined: 17 Jun 2014 Posts: 126

I was told by a teacher that playing higher wasn't about chops or breath, but ears... I couldn't play the notes because I couldn't hear the notes.

He said "if you're practicing 3 hours a day (I was at the time) it's an issue of hearing, not mechanics"... I probed a bit because it REALLY didn't make sense, and he brushed it off.

He dropped me shortly thereafter because "I obviously didn't value his advice"... now; to be fair- I was a 16 year old punk that questioned everything, but I now know how to play higher, and the ear is not my issue.

John Mohan · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:18 am Post subject:

Your post reminds me very much of my experiences when I was young Joe.

From https://www.purtle.com/how-i-became-a-student-of-claude-gordon-by-john-mohan :

RandyTX · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Bad Advice

Really interesting OP, a lot of those jump out at me as familiar. One in particular really jumped out at me...

Jerry Freedman · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Bad Advice

Robert P · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2595

beagle · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:10 pm Post subject:

BeboppinFool · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:57 pm Post subject:

khedger · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:04 pm Post subject:

2) use your fingers to press different valve combinations to get different notes

Betelgeuse215 · Veteran Member Joined: 20 May 2015 Posts: 186

3. sometimes you suck, and then you empty your spit valve

boog · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Jun 2014 Posts: 247

4. Never grip the vibrator.

Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187

Mike Sailors · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:28 pm Post subject:

Except for very rare occasions, the TH is the last place anyone should come to for advice on trumpet playing, or music for that matter.

Now, if you’re lookin to argue about what to call the G on the 4th ledger line, TH is your place!
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Billy B · Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:44 am Post subject:

jhahntpt · Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:52 am Post subject:

Every single one of my young private students has come in thinking that a breath attack was the only articulation, that you need to stop blowing between notes, you need to think “ah” when you play, and that you need more air to play high notes.

That just par for the course when people without much brass expeierence are teaching beginning band...

In college I had a professor that I just didn’t understand at all. He would say all of these things that meant something to him that just never clicked for me. I, like OP said, put them in a jar and came to my own conclusion. It was interesting that I’m starting to understand what they said more and more the longer I’ve been away.
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Dave CCM/SSO · Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:42 am Post subject:

Hello,

I believe that most trumpet players who have tried consistently over a significant period of time to improve and to learn from others can relate a bit to your post.

I think it's important to realize, however, that a professional that has a very high level of technical proficiency on the instrument has good information to offer. If they have significant experience teaching the instrument, then they have most likely learned to tailor their instructions for the individual student at the specific time of their lesson. For instance, if you were to come have a lesson with me and you were playing very sharp with a small, pinched sound, I might suggest playing "lower on the pitch". If you then went and practiced that for 2 hours a day and came back sounding very flat and spread out, I might suggest that you play "higher on the pitch". This is just one example, of course. Ultimately, it's your job to find the correct balance for you.

To consistently improve, we must take the information that is given to us and then learn how it applies to our individual needs on any given day. It's important to allow for our needs to change as certain aspects of our technique improve.

Just my two cents.

Good luck!!

Dave
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Dave

Springfield Symphony Orchestra (OH)
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