Joined: 21 Apr 2016 Posts: 130 Location: Somewhere in the mountains of North Georgia
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:12 am Post subject: Need help getting the flow of "Joy Spring"
This is something I have been working on for a while, but I can't quite get it to flow quite right. I keep ending up breaking it up into phrases, so what I need to work on is getting everything together and presentable. I can't record myself right now, but do you people have any pointers on this? My goal is to whip this out the the next jam I attend, but it has to be solid, you know. I haven't even begun to work improvising over the changes... That'll be another hurdle. _________________ 1880's Thompson & Odell Boston
1880's L&H "Henry Gunckel" Sole Agent Cornet
1903 L&H "Improved Own Make"
Early 1900's Marceau Cornet *B&F Stencil
1922 Holton-Clarke Cornet
1954 Elkhart built by Buescher 37b
...And many more
Joined: 25 Nov 2001 Posts: 5734 Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Need help getting the flow of "Joy Spring"
VintageFTW wrote:
This is something I have been working on for a while, but I can't quite get it to flow quite right. I keep ending up breaking it up into phrases, so what I need to work on is getting everything together and presentable. I can't record myself right now, but do you people have any pointers on this? My goal is to whip this out the the next jam I attend, but it has to be solid, you know. I haven't even begun to work improvising over the changes... That'll be another hurdle.
Are you talking about just getting the melody under your fingers? I would listen to Brownie play it and try and emulate that as much as possible (paying particular attention to the articulations).
Also, play it slowly with a metronome (aka the "little truth box")... _________________ Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions!
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject:
The head is tricky, that's for sure, especially the bridge! If I haven't played it in a while, it's easy to goof up in a performance situation (particularly that ascending arpeggio into the bridge).
The best way to learn something is to play it VERY SLOWLY. Start your metronome (on the 2 and the 4 of course) so slowly you can play it without a single mistake, even if this is painfully slow. When you play it perfectly, then you move the metronome up 2 notches. When you play it perfectly there, move it up 2 notches. When you reach a tempo you can't play it at, STOP PLAYING IT FOR THE DAY. You're done - don't learn bad habits! Start again the next day at a tempo you can play it with no mistakes, and work it up slowly from there. You'll be at performance tempo in a few days.
Diligent, mindful application of the above method is a foolproof way to absolutely nail even the most difficult bebop heads, etudes, or whatever else you're working on.
I hope that this is helpful! Good luck, it's a fun tune! _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.
Joined: 03 May 2015 Posts: 867 Location: West Side, USA
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject:
Here goes a stupid question...
Do you play along with Clifford's recording? That seems like the best idea, IMO. _________________ Please join me as well at:
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Joined: 25 Nov 2001 Posts: 5734 Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:24 am Post subject:
LaTrompeta wrote:
Do you play along with Clifford's recording? That seems like the best idea, IMO.
Worth noting here that there's more than one recording of this tune, and, if I recall correctly, one (the octet arrangement) is in a different key than the version considered "standard"... _________________ Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions!
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:29 pm Post subject:
jazz_trpt wrote:
LaTrompeta wrote:
Do you play along with Clifford's recording? That seems like the best idea, IMO.
Worth noting here that there's more than one recording of this tune, and, if I recall correctly, one (the octet arrangement) is in a different key than the version considered "standard"...
That's true . . . the album, Jazz Immortal has it in E♭, not in what most people consider the standard key (F).
Required listening, in my opinion. There's an alternate take of Tiny Capers also . . . I had never heard that before today, so thanks for posting and reminding me about this album! There are a couple of skips from recording it off an old LP but those arrangements and Clifford's playing are definitely immortal and timeless! _________________ Puttin’ On The Ritz
Joined: 21 Apr 2016 Posts: 130 Location: Somewhere in the mountains of North Georgia
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:37 pm Post subject:
Here goes a stupid answer to a stupid (not really) question: No, or at least not near as much as I should. The main section giving me trouble is the bridge. Everything else is fine, but that bridge is really tripping me up. _________________ 1880's Thompson & Odell Boston
1880's L&H "Henry Gunckel" Sole Agent Cornet
1903 L&H "Improved Own Make"
Early 1900's Marceau Cornet *B&F Stencil
1922 Holton-Clarke Cornet
1954 Elkhart built by Buescher 37b
...And many more
Joined: 25 Nov 2001 Posts: 5734 Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:24 am Post subject:
VintageFTW wrote:
Here goes a stupid answer to a stupid (not really) question: No, or at least not near as much as I should. The main section giving me trouble is the bridge. Everything else is fine, but that bridge is really tripping me up.
And I'll bet it's the first half of the bridge more than the second half? The tricky thing there is the little chromatic enclosure the beat before each dominant chord... _________________ Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions!
I've been working on this one for several months now, and I had more trouble with the bridge, too. Work on it in sections, sight reading and then from memory, lots of repetition to get it under your fingers. That should help you retain it, too. I learned a lot of bebop lines years ago, and even if I don't play them for a while, they come back quickly. It helps to listen to the music a lot, to have an ear for it.
When I went to a Clifford Brown conference, I learned that he was really into playing through the Arban book. Learning Joy Spring, I can see the influence, it kind of reminds me of an etude.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9025 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:25 am Post subject:
Isolate the difficult licks, play them slowly and only to the point of non-tension. Is this rocket science? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:23 am Post subject:
Using a metronome and practicing slower is my rule.
If I were to learn how to play by playing stuff up to tempo that is easy to play but then slowing down for the trickier things, I am basically reinforcing the difficulty of the trickier things.
When I play the whole thing slowly, my fingers and mind are working together and improving at the same speed. Playing the whole thing at one tempo teaches me to play the whole thing at the same tempo, regardless of the tempo.
Back in the early 80s I sat in at a place called Natalie's at 40th & Market in Philadelphia, and the rhythm section was Don Patterson on organ and Billy James on drums. They asked me what I wanted to play, and I said "Joy Spring" and they counted it off so fast I almost missed my entrance at the top. But I had been practicing the head with a metronome and somehow "miraculously" was able to play it at their tempo. My fingers didn't seize up at the bridge.
That was quite a lesson and I have worn out many metronomes through the years. I highly recommend focused, slower practice with a metronome. _________________ Puttin’ On The Ritz
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