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LFRoberts5
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Joined: 12 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like for all Jeff’s students, either those who have…

1. Studied with him personally or
2. Have thoroughly digested his book and regularly apply it in their daily practice session or
3. Corresponded with him either phone or email;

To give your experience on how BE has helped your playing.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Here is my experience with BE.

Having studied with Jerry Callet and the SC, TCE Method; I was still not satisfied with my range and endurance. My continued search lead me to Jeff’s book, The Balanced Embouchure. It seemed like the perfect match. The missing link. The ultimate balance.

I read and reread Section II entitled Exercises until I had a good grasp of the concepts. I then dove in head first and never looked back.

One area of my playing improved immediately, that of endurance. I was able to play for longer periods with less fatigue and less work.

Another area of improvement was my tone. I actually have a tone. Not a fuzzy note with a big sound but an actual tone. One my wife even said was nice and she hates all trumpet players except Allen Vizzutti. By achieving a better balance in my embouchure thru Jeff’s exercises, things I fought to play before came effortlessly, e.g. Clarke’s Studies, Carnival of Venice, et al.

What I love most about BE is that by practicing the exercises correctly, every aspect of my playing improves. Tone, Flexibility, Range, Endurance, Technique. And I really don’t practice at improving those areas specifically. The improved balance of my embouchure makes all other areas of my playing improve.

P.S. The reason I posted this is to try and centralize posts related to direct experience with BE. Please feel free to copy and paste.
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[ This Message was edited by: LFRoberts5 on 2003-11-30 20:16 ]
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_dcstep
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm very early in my B.E. experience. I met Jeff and picked up my copy of "The Balanced Embouchure" a week ago Saturday. Jeff and I talked a little about trumpeting in general, but I didn't take a lesson.

I've been playing for 46 years now and I've always had a good tone with great fullness. I've been playing first in most ensembles that I've been in since junior high. I had a good sound concept mainly because I heard Don Jacoby in concert when I was ten and I'll always have that sound in my head as the prototype for how a trumpet should sound.

My problem is that I always played with a spread embouchure and a ton of pressure to make it work. I had a callus on my top lip and on my right pinky finger where I operated the "octave key". I had one one-hour lesson with Pops about two years ago and he got me to close down my embouchure. This turned out to be an epiphany for me. I was able to go from REQUIRING daily practice to being able to lay off for days at a time and still play four-hour rock gigs on the weekends. Despite my strides, my high range wasn't as reliable as I like. Pops talked about his own embouchure as being rolled in a little, but I didn't really understand what he meant or how to achieve that. (I did not inquire further of Pops).

Lex Grantham’s reports of his B.E. lessons got me started on B.E. I tried some of the things he was talking about and the worked, even though I was doing them out of context and didn’t fully understand my purpose. Thanks Lex. I decided that I’d do well to buy the book and make sure that I had the whole picture.

My progress with B.E. has been very quick so far. The roll out is easy and I was doing the first four exercises within three days, with good intonation and resonance. The roll in has been much harder for me. I'm doing the Lip Compression squeak now and feeling the benefit in my abs and toning certain muscles in my embouchure. I'm struggling with consistency on Roll-In #1. I've moved my mouthpiece position from having my top lip near the top of the mouthpiece to well down into the center, sometimes lower. I feel my setup moving, BUT I don't think it's reached its final destination yet. I can see this process taking a few more weeks before I settle down.

The beauty of this is that it hasn't interrupted my playing at all. My tone is still super duper. I'm hitting F#s and Gs above high-C with more dependability and the volume up there is increasing day-by-day. I've "hit" a double C with my interim rolled-in embouchure, but my setup isn't repeatable yet. It still feels unfamiliar. My endurance is a little better. In the third set last night, I moved my lips further down in the mouthpiece as I tired and regained both power and endurance.

I feel so good about B.E. that I expect that within a few weeks I'll be able to play the G above high-C figure in "Volcano" six times, as on the record, rather than just once as I now do. I'm confident that the double C will come reliably and I might even throw something in that range into a gig here and there.

I want to get a little further along with this first, but I've got several friends in mind that will benefit tremendously from B.E. The book is totally lucid and the CD makes it perfectly clear how the exercises should sound. This is a great method that works.


Dave
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placebo11
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Joined: 10 Jun 2003
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Location: texas

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been taking lessons from Jeff since I was in 6th grade and I am currently a senior at South Garland High School, and I still take lessons to this day. While Jeff and I disagree on this, I often tell him that without him I doubt I would be anywhere close to the type of trumpet player I am now. I started really practicing the BE exercises about the middle of my freshmen year, and haven't looked back since. I can tell you that BE has helped me immensely with range and tone production. I even had the opportunity to record some of the lip slurs exercises for the book. One thing I would like to point out here is many times Jeff's reply to my problems or concerns about my playing is that I am making too big a deal out of something that really isn't, and for the most part, the problem will fix itself. This is especially true with my experience with BE. For example, last year (my junior year) I would go through odd slumps of loosing range, and have a fuzzy tone. These slumps were always only a few days, and often times, the result would be another note to the range, and a fuller tone. So now, if I have a "bad" day, I just tell myself to forget about it, you're just going through a phase and embarking on better trumpet playing skills.

So in conclusion, I owe my trumpet playing skills to the BE method, and I will continue to use it after I graduate to college.

- carl

[ This Message was edited by: placebo11 on 2003-11-30 22:14 ]
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oj
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Joined: 06 Jan 2003
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Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good topic Lloyd!

1. Have I studied with him personally? - No, I live in Norway
2. Have I thoroughly digested his book and regularly applied it in my daily practice session? - Yes, for 2 years
3. Have I corresponded with him ? - Yes, for 2 years, and I also made an interview with him.

I have stated elswhere here that B.E. in my opinion is one of the best books ever written for trumpet players. The last year I have been integrating the TCE tonguing with good result. I now think this good result is due to B.E. - that I had done those exercises for a year before going into the forward tonguing. This is in fact also the "route" Jerome Callet took, he also started with Roll-Out (in 1970) and did that for many years. In Trumpet Yoga (his first book) Callet has an exercise he calls "Pumping Air Thru Embouchure". Is this not kind of a pre TCE thing?

If I had to choose between "Trumpet Secrets" and "Balanced Embouchure", I would choose "Balanced Embouchure".

Jeff's book can be used without teacher instruction. "Trumpet Secrets" is not, in my opinion, such a self help book.

The good thing is, I did not have to choose, so I use both. We have other people participating in this forum that does the same. Bert in Holland, like me, first worked on B.E., then started on TCE.

Ole

P.S.:
Carl, good to hear from a long time student of Jeff! Did you play on the CD?



[ This Message was edited by: oj on 2003-12-01 12:58 ]
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HJ
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Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lloyd,

1. I did not take lessons from Jeff personally, because I live in Holland
2. I read the book in one day, started the exercises the other day, and keep reading the important things over and over. When I get stuck I just read it again, and most of the time this gets me going again.
3. From the time I ordered the book, I have mailed Jeff with a lot of questions and, remarks and just updates of my progress. Just to know how he thaught about it. This is what makes BE very special, and what makes Jeff very special. The method is great, the book is great, but the responsability Jeff takes for his book is fabulous.

I am a bit surprised when I read kind of overnight sucess stories like Dave's. Not that I cannot believe it, I know of a few big unexpected steps in my own experience with BE, but just to be as honest as possible IMO BE is absolutely not a quick fix, miracle method or a book for lazy trumpet players who just want to play DHC in one week with no practice;-). Maybe somebody like Dave has an embouchure that is very close to the principles Jeff describes. I undersatnd you could already play up to high G. I could not do this two years ago, and after one and a half year doing the BE about half an hour to fifty minutes a day, I can play (not only hit) G above high C, but owning it is too much said, I even can hit DHC every day but this will take another two years I think.
So my progress is absolutely great thanks to BE, but do not think it is quick for everybody. Jeff has replied to many of my emails with the sentence: you have to be patient. Believe me, the method works!!!!, but you have to be patient, do not expect to play the upper range in a month or even in a year. You will feel the changes pretty quickly, but that does not mean that your problems are over instantly.
Despite the range I gained (two years ago I could play a strained high D, sometimes, and only on a warmed up-half an hour-fresh embouchure, maybe high E, but that could cost me the rest of the day or even week!!!) I still have some difficulties. I am getting close to playing a lead part, but not there yet. I would love to play the Charlier book with no problems at all, and do Hindemith, Aratunyan and Hummel after this, but I can't. Maybe one day I can. I enjoy every minute of the process I am going through, because for the first time in maybe fifteen years I am really making progress again, and I am not surviving anymore but playing and getting better.

Something about the indirectness. It is absolutely true that you do not loose your performance level. You will feel that you get stronger, go higher and get more endurance, but to me it also felt (and sometimes feels) strange. It can be confusing to your mind and chops if you play a G above high C without blood spraying out all over the floor and musicians in front of you, LOL, but seriously, playing easy feels different from what you expect, and that is confusing. It sometimes made me go back to my old habits, because I did not trust this feeling. So from time to time, there are of course periods of instability, but as Carl says, most of the time you are in for a ball when you get past this trouble. Thanks Carl for reassuring me of this principle, because that is what made me very strong in lesser times doing the BE, it happened a few times that I was a bit discouraged by the progress I made, I missed some notes again, high G was less brilliant (Mmmmmpfffff....), but I always came out better. Now I don't really worry anymore. It's just another phase. BTW Nice to hear from you, I learned a lot from you listening to the CD, thanks, man).

About Trumpet Secrets, TCE and Callet: I have been doing BE for 1 1/2 year. In september I had a clinic from Callet in Germany. He only had the students spitbuzz for hours. Now I know what that is!!!

I already have some posts about this on Trumpetchops.com and I am discussing the combination BE/TCE with Jeff and Ole. I discovered the TCE by accident, but I think the two are complementary. I absolutely agree with Ole that you should do BE first and have at least a ' relative state of balance' (the point at which I am now I think). When your lips know more or less what to do, TCE seems pretty logical to do. I had (and still have) problems tonguing the roll-ins. When I do them the way Callet tought me, it comes together. For the first time BE feels like an embouchure. Not stable, not a really beautiful tone, but with a big potential of being an easy to play embouchure from low f# to DHC. That's how it feels, it is not what I can do with it right now. The order IMO is crucial: first BE, then add TCE, don't be easy on the BE(I did this for a week, and it started falling apart again.), this is the fundament on which to built your chops of stone, hahaha.

Bert

[ This Message was edited by: HJ on 2003-12-01 09:21 ]

[ This Message was edited by: HJ on 2003-12-01 09:30 ]
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placebo11
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Joined: 10 Jun 2003
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Location: texas

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comments Ole and Bert,

Ole - I assume you mean the BE CD? I played tracks 8-9 and 14-21, and if I remember correctly I was 14 at the time so that would make it my freshmen year of high school.

[ This Message was edited by: placebo11 on 2003-12-01 15:54 ]
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Larrios
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Studied with him personally? Nope.
2. Have thoroughly digested his book and regularly apply it in their daily practice session? Yup!
3. Corresponded with him either phone or email? No phonecalls, but lots and lots of emails.

To give your experience on how BE has helped your playing:

I've been doing the BE for more than 1.5 years now. When I first got the book, I was also still experimenting with other methods at the same time. After some months I was mainly doing BE. None of the excersises worked for me instantly. For various reasons. I'm still a young guy and, apart from Jeff's great email support, I had to figure out most things by myself, as the method hasn't been out for a long time so far and there are not yet teachers available to guide. That's ok though, as this book is designed to help yourself. It just took me a while to let various concepts sink in and see the bigger picture. That's one of the reasons why I didn't have instant success, but on the other hand I did get a passion to become a teacher from the process I've been through and I am still going through. In my opinion, that gain is worth the effort.

So, how did it help my playing? Well, in a nutshell, I went from not being able to play a C-major scale properly to now being able to participate musically in a local brassband again. Still a lot of work that needs to be done, but my playing is consistent and progress steady. (By the way, I once performed the Arutunian concerto at age 12, including the cadenza at the end. Problems came later. Big time. 4 years of flat chin training didn't do much good either. From there I started experimenting and ended up not being able to play that scale.)

Apart from my playing, I think that one of the most important changes BE gave me, was in my way of thinking. I've always had the feeling that my lips were the cause of most of my playing problems, but couldn't find any answers that would help me fix it. BE does provide those answers. I am now more aware of what I am doing and how I am developing. I also make better observations of other players. For me, BE meant totally letting go of most of the things I had learned and had been studying for years. On a concious level that wasn't hard, as the universal principles just make a lot of sense, but on a deeper level, it needed to sink in. Development needs time, especially when bad habbits in the unconcious control of an embouchure are involved. My perception concerning the trumpet has changed a lot, in a positive way. I can really advise everyone to not give up too easily on BE. To develop and grow in one area, you might need to do so in another way/area, that might not be very obvious at first, as well. Let it happen. Growth will occur and once things are starting to move, literally, and you become aware of the potential you actually have, you will realise it has been worth the few years of investment.

Ok, finally a little question for the moderator here. Jeff, do you keep a database of teachers that are using BE? This forum is great, but I can imagine that there are people who feel the need to discuss and share experiences in their own language as well, as for some English is a barrier (did I spell that one right?). I don't think we should make this a multilangual forum, but would it be an idea to have teachers post their email addresses and the languages they speak in a seperate topic here, as to reach a bigger audience?

Ko
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trumpetteacher1
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everybody,

Thanks for the comments!

Carl is being too modest. I'll brag for him in an upcoming post.

Ko, the number of teachers using BE is still quite small. I don't have a database, but I have hard copies of emails from most of the teachers who are starting to use BE. It may take me a while to contact everybody, however.

In your TH profile, you can list the country you are from (see "from" line), and that information appears beneath your user name at the left of each of your posts. I recommend that you add this line if you want to attract interest from that country.

Jeff
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