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cyber_shake
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 Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Jon,
Just replied via email.
Blaine
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Blaine
brasshurricane@gmail.com
Schagerl LU5A
DaCarbo Unica
Adams A4 LT-S
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Jon Arnold
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you. |
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OldSchoolEuph
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Hermokiwi’s tale embodies one of the concerns I have always had with Adams – and why I have always steered anyone asking me toward alternatives – the company seems to be averse to straight-forward communication.
When you go to their “About” page, instead of telling you what the company is and what it makes, they give you a mission statement filled with the usual non-information, and phrases like family values (Great - Octavian was the first “family values” politician based on his obsession with morality (in contrast to his mother and sister), but as Augustus Caesar, he traded the Roman Republic for an Empire). Why hide behind verbal smoke screens – unless you are in fact in need of hiding?
It is simply not clear where, or by whom, their trumpets are made. They choose their words on the website very carefully indicating that “Adams Custom Brass instruments are developed and manufactured in the Adams factory in the Netherlands”, but say nothing about the non-custom stock models, nor about where components come from other than making their own bells. This statement in itself is contradicted if one goes through the pain of translating their history page, which states: ”In addition to timpani, the Adams Timpani factory also produces marimbas, vibraphones, xylophones, concert bass drums, tube chimes and chimes.” Now it says “tympani factory”, but factory is always referred to in the singular at every occurrence in their website, which would not be compatible with another Netherlands factory for trumpets.
Even with the custom offering, the "page" they link is a pdf of part of a print catalog. It says you can select bore size - but does not indicate what sizes are available. It says you can select metal thickness - but does not say what thicknesses you can choose from. It seems well constructed to accommodate frequent changes in suppliers and varying option availability.
When a company is producing custom horns by assembling supplier-controlled parts, it is typical to have a lot of trouble getting what you want – and that’s just what this story reads like. My questions are, does a pile of parts from who knows where undergoing final assembly and finishing constitute “making” a horn? (certainly no-one here on TH has felt that way about the student and intermediate product from BAC in related posts) And, how much of an Adams horn falls into this bucket - what do they actually make? Anytime a company hides these details, it leaves me expecting the worst. (BAC at least tells you what is sourced and what is in-house)
You don’t see Flip feeling the need to hide the origins of his horns. A company that does not have the pride in its product to tell you where and how it is made, regardless of where that may be, is telegraphing that they are indeed not proud, and that they don’t want to admit something. No matter what the actual circumstances of fabrication, that behavior is just a huge warning sign.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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loweredsixth
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 1844
Location: Fresno, California, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Hermokiwi’s tale embodies one of the concerns I have always had with Adams – and why I have always steered anyone asking me toward alternatives – the company seems to be averse to straight-forward communication.
When you go to their “About” page, instead of telling you what the company is and what it makes, they give you a mission statement filled with the usual non-information, and phrases like family values (Great - Octavian was the first “family values” politician based on his obsession with morality (in contrast to his mother and sister), but as Augustus Caesar, he traded the Roman Republic for an Empire). Why hide behind verbal smoke screens – unless you are in fact in need of hiding?
It is simply not clear where, or by whom, their trumpets are made. They choose their words on the website very carefully indicating that “Adams Custom Brass instruments are developed and manufactured in the Adams factory in the Netherlands”, but say nothing about the non-custom stock models, nor about where components come from other than making their own bells. This statement in itself is contradicted if one goes through the pain of translating their history page, which states: ”In addition to timpani, the Adams Timpani factory also produces marimbas, vibraphones, xylophones, concert bass drums, tube chimes and chimes.” Now it says “tympani factory”, but factory is always referred to in the singular at every occurrence in their website, which would not be compatible with another Netherlands factory for trumpets.
Even with the custom offering, the "page" they link is a pdf of part of a print catalog. It says you can select bore size - but does not indicate what sizes are available. It says you can select metal thickness - but does not say what thicknesses you can choose from. It seems well constructed to accommodate frequent changes in suppliers and varying option availability.
When a company is producing custom horns by assembling supplier-controlled parts, it is typical to have a lot of trouble getting what you want – and that’s just what this story reads like. My questions are, does a pile of parts from who knows where undergoing final assembly and finishing constitute “making” a horn? (certainly no-one here on TH has felt that way about the student and intermediate product from BAC in related posts) And, how much of an Adams horn falls into this bucket - what do they actually make? Anytime a company hides these details, it leaves me expecting the worst. (BAC at least tells you what is sourced and what is in-house)
You don’t see Flip feeling the need to hide the origins of his horns. A company that does not have the pride in its product to tell you where and how it is made, regardless of where that may be, is telegraphing that they are indeed not proud, and that they don’t want to admit something. No matter what the actual circumstances of fabrication, that behavior is just a huge warning sign. |
Seems pretty clear: https://www.adams-music.com/en/adams/brass
Maybe I’m wrong, but I think they call their stock models “custom brass” as well.
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austincustombrass
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Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 246
Location: Kansas City, MO
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Hermokiwi’s tale embodies one of the concerns I have always had with Adams – and why I have always steered anyone asking me toward alternatives – the company seems to be averse to straight-forward communication.
When you go to their “About” page, instead of telling you what the company is and what it makes, they give you a mission statement filled with the usual non-information, and phrases like family values (Great - Octavian was the first “family values” politician based on his obsession with morality (in contrast to his mother and sister), but as Augustus Caesar, he traded the Roman Republic for an Empire). Why hide behind verbal smoke screens – unless you are in fact in need of hiding?
It is simply not clear where, or by whom, their trumpets are made. They choose their words on the website very carefully indicating that “Adams Custom Brass instruments are developed and manufactured in the Adams factory in the Netherlands”, but say nothing about the non-custom stock models, nor about where components come from other than making their own bells. This statement in itself is contradicted if one goes through the pain of translating their history page, which states: ”In addition to timpani, the Adams Timpani factory also produces marimbas, vibraphones, xylophones, concert bass drums, tube chimes and chimes.” Now it says “tympani factory”, but factory is always referred to in the singular at every occurrence in their website, which would not be compatible with another Netherlands factory for trumpets.
Even with the custom offering, the "page" they link is a pdf of part of a print catalog. It says you can select bore size - but does not indicate what sizes are available. It says you can select metal thickness - but does not say what thicknesses you can choose from. It seems well constructed to accommodate frequent changes in suppliers and varying option availability.
When a company is producing custom horns by assembling supplier-controlled parts, it is typical to have a lot of trouble getting what you want – and that’s just what this story reads like. My questions are, does a pile of parts from who knows where undergoing final assembly and finishing constitute “making” a horn? (certainly no-one here on TH has felt that way about the student and intermediate product from BAC in related posts) And, how much of an Adams horn falls into this bucket - what do they actually make? Anytime a company hides these details, it leaves me expecting the worst. (BAC at least tells you what is sourced and what is in-house)
You don’t see Flip feeling the need to hide the origins of his horns. A company that does not have the pride in its product to tell you where and how it is made, regardless of where that may be, is telegraphing that they are indeed not proud, and that they don’t want to admit something. No matter what the actual circumstances of fabrication, that behavior is just a huge warning sign. |
wow.
Where do I begin here other than to say you are pretty far off base here. You are putting a lot into a website. Adams is much more a hands-on company either via phone or in person. John's experience with my shop in the past has been well documented and I personally reached out to John and apologized for my earlier attitude. I am very excited to welcome him to the ACB shop next week for a fun visit! Back to the topic at hand here though:
The Adams corporation is 50 years old, founded by a trumpeter Andre Adams. In addition to being the worldwide leader in tuned percussion they have quite a growing Brass factory. While their repair shop and retail shops have been around for nearly 45 years the brass factory is relatively young, celebrating 15 years this October.
Adams has plenty of videos of how they make their instruments online. I can share a few links here if you'd like but I have worked with Adams for 10 years and they are an incredible company that makes every part in house. Every part. They have a 300,000+ sq ft factory (2/3 percussion, 1/3 brass). I have worked with every single craftsman in the brass factory, watched literally EVERY part of the instrument being made (no outsourcing... unlike companies you mention in your post above which either use Chinese valves or are 100% Chinese manufactured like Flip's new line of lower priced instruments.).
Last check Adams has made at least 15 different Bb Trumpet blocks comprising of 1-piece, 2-piece blocks (including a fully ergonomic block whcih combines the Olds Recording and Selmer Radial designs together) which can be made with the following bores:
.438
.450
.453
.459
.460
.463
.470
(the metric to inch conversions are approximate).
Most companies (like the ones you mention in this post outside of Adams) do not even have the technical skills nor the resources to even make their own blocks. Adams does not hide any secrets. Call them and ask them if you have issues. Call my shop anytime and we'll happily discuss any options you prefer. Adams walks the walk. They don't talk a lot about their horns or feel the need to gloat about their incredible factory (trust me it's the best I have ever seen).
By the way WHO are you? You speak like you are a sage expert yet do not sign your name. It would be much more beneficial to know who I am writing back to. If you ever find your way to the Netherlands please let me know and I can arrange a tour of the facilities for you. Bring comfortable shoes it's a fun tour!
Trent
_________________
As of 1/1/2022 ACB will no longer post online here nor monitor TH.
It's a shame how far this forum has fallen. If you need us call 816-410-0826 or email.
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Last edited by austincustombrass on Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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wohlrab
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Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Posts: 131
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Had an Adams A10 for a couple of years. Beautiful horn, I like the sound. The intonation... maybe I got a lemon or something but for me the intonation was below acceptable level. I did eventually get used to it but I was constantly fighting it. Reached out to Adams about it with no response. Decided to go another direction. |
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austincustombrass
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| austincustombrass wrote: | Adams has plenty of videos of how they make their instruments online. I can share a few links here if you'd like but I have worked with Adams for 10 years and they are an incredible company that makes every part in house. Every part. They have a 300,000+ sq ft factory (2/3 percussion, 1/3 brass). I have worked with every single craftsman in the brass factory, watched literally EVERY part of the instrument being made (no outsourcing... unlike companies you mention in your post above which either use Chinese valves or are 100% Chinese manufactured like Flip's new line of lower priced instruments.).
...
Most companies (like the ones you mention in this post outside of Adams) do not even have the technical skills nor the resources to even make their own blocks. Adams does not hide any secrets. Call them and ask them if you have issues. Call my shop anytime and we'll happily discuss any options you prefer. Adams walks the walk. They don't talk a lot about their horns or feel the need to gloat about their incredible factory (trust me it's the best I have ever seen).
By the way WHO are you? You speak like you are a sage expert yet do not sign your name. It would be much more beneficial to know who I am writing back to. If you ever find your way to the Netherlands please let me know and I can arrange a tour of the facilities for you. Bring comfortable shoes it's a fun tour!
Trent |
A company website is its retail face today. Adams' site conveys the image it conveys.
Thanks for detailing bore size. That may help others who find this thread later - I just don't fathom why Adams would not include that in the content offering the option.
As the intervening post demonstrates, experiences can be different. I have heard from many who love their Adams horns, and some who don't. I suppose the same may be true for communication with a maker or a retailer - it depends on who you get at the other end of the phone or email, and maybe how their day has been going.
But that was the great leap forward with the internet - it made it possible to put information in front of your customer anywhere, anytime, and all there just for the asking without any dependency on human frailties.
Sorry if my antiquated use of a handle as opposed to legal signature seemed sneaky - I guess it just shows my age and how long I've been online.
--- Profile signature updated ---
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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tptva004
Regular Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2018
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| OldSchoolEuph wrote: | When you go to their “About” page, instead of telling you what the company is and what it makes, they give you a mission statement filled with the usual non-information, and phrases like family values (Great - Octavian was the first “family values” politician based on his obsession with morality (in contrast to his mother and sister), but as Augustus Caesar, he traded the Roman Republic for an Empire). Why hide behind verbal smoke screens – unless you are in fact in need of hiding?
It is simply not clear where, or by whom, their trumpets are made. They choose their words on the website very carefully indicating that “Adams Custom Brass instruments are developed and manufactured in the Adams factory in the Netherlands”, but say nothing about the non-custom stock models, nor about where components come from other than making their own bells. This statement in itself is contradicted if one goes through the pain of translating their history page, which states: ”In addition to timpani, the Adams Timpani factory also produces marimbas, vibraphones, xylophones, concert bass drums, tube chimes and chimes.” Now it says “tympani factory”, but factory is always referred to in the singular at every occurrence in their website, which would not be compatible with another Netherlands factory for trumpets.
Even with the custom offering, the "page" they link is a pdf of part of a print catalog. It says you can select bore size - but does not indicate what sizes are available. It says you can select metal thickness - but does not say what thicknesses you can choose from. It seems well constructed to accommodate frequent changes in suppliers and varying option availability.
When a company is producing custom horns by assembling supplier-controlled parts, it is typical to have a lot of trouble getting what you want – and that’s just what this story reads like. My questions are, does a pile of parts from who knows where undergoing final assembly and finishing constitute “making” a horn? (certainly no-one here on TH has felt that way about the student and intermediate product from BAC in related posts) And, how much of an Adams horn falls into this bucket - what do they actually make? Anytime a company hides these details, it leaves me expecting the worst. (BAC at least tells you what is sourced and what is in-house)
You don’t see Flip feeling the need to hide the origins of his horns. A company that does not have the pride in its product to tell you where and how it is made, regardless of where that may be, is telegraphing that they are indeed not proud, and that they don’t want to admit something. No matter what the actual circumstances of fabrication, that behavior is just a huge warning sign. |
i don't even own an adams (though I do like the ones ive played) so i have no dog in this fight.... but your post seems poorly informed.
1) adams does clear state where the horns are made and designed on the homepage for the brass instruments
https://www.adams-music.com/en/adams/brass
2) kanstul's webstie seems to fail in almost the same way you claim adams does. in the about section, there are 3 paragraphs of bio about zig and only 1 sentence about the factory.
http://www.kanstul.com/about/about-kanstul/
Flip's website isn't any better. i recall shofarguy saying that flip had an overseas manufacturer for his new horns. i do not see that manufacturer named on flips site and in the bottom of his site there is a 100& made in the usa logo. if shofarguy was wrong, i stand corrected. if he wasn't then flip's site is hiding the origin of his horns. i simply don't care whether its true or not that flip is or isn't hiding this information - i'm simply using the example you did.
3) BAC uses Adams valves for the horn they designed with trent. I played this at the hr trumpet hang in 2019. it's a great horn. BaC have been very clear that they sourced the valves directly from adams. surely if adams were buying the valves, BAc would just go to the source and not pad the middleman's pockets. I don't know much about the industry, but there can't be so many makers that bac doesn't know them all.
4) this may be unfair, but weren't you the poster criticizing bac when mike bought kanstul for unclear marketing?
5) adams website catalog has a lot of detailed info about bore size and thiucknesse on the selected trumpets. their 2019 catalog i piked up at the HR hnga had all the custom options spelled out in clear language.
i don't play an adams so i don't really care where they're made. but it seems like you'd have to work pretty hard to ignore the evidence they build their horns from videos, the website, photos, etc. here's one with someone named darren barrett showing a huge factory with people actively making horns:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EkEVuWOz24
fwiw I found this video by googling adams+trumpet+factory+tour
it's pretty rare to see factories build horns on video - i've seen monette, bach, and yAmaha videos of turning bells, but never any by a lot of makers i assume make their trumpets like carol or taylor... or bac for that matter. but i would love to be wrong - i like watching that so please send me links if these videos exist.
you are clearly invested in brass history so i don't doubt you know a lot more than i do but we all miss things sometimes  |
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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1) I'ld feel better if it didn't qualify with "custom" but accept Trent's statements.
2) Kanstul was Zig, and vice-versa. Which explains the catalog.
3) Fair point - though I'm not sure everyone knows everyone.
4) Yes. You may notice the website has changed.
5) I was speaking about the unusual nature of the website, not documents one might obtain in person. It does not represent well what Trent has instead represented here for them. That is at a minimum unfortunate.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Divitt Trumpets
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Joined: 11 Aug 2015
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Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| tptva004 wrote: |
3) BAC uses Adams valves for the horn they designed with trent. I played this at the hr trumpet hang in 2019. it's a great horn. BaC have been very clear that they sourced the valves directly from adams. surely if adams were buying the valves, BAc would just go to the source and not pad the middleman's pockets. I don't know much about the industry, but there can't be so many makers that bac doesn't know them all.
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Only for that specific model. Not the other models.
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Divitt Trumpets
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| tptva004 wrote: |
3) BAC uses Adams valves for the horn they designed with trent. I played this at the hr trumpet hang in 2019. it's a great horn. BaC have been very clear that they sourced the valves directly from adams. surely if adams were buying the valves, BAc would just go to the source and not pad the middleman's pockets. I don't know much about the industry, but there can't be so many makers that bac doesn't know them all.
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Only for that specific model. Not the other models.
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delano
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Most of the time OldSchoolEuph is well informed but not in this case. His comment on Adams is not based on any trustworthy information. I visited Adams a few times, owned a F1 flügel and never had any reason to believe they outsourced their production. They used the valves of Bauerfeind and when it became necessary for some reason they bought Bauerfeind. |
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OldSchoolEuph
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | Most of the time OldSchoolEuph is well informed but not in this case. His comment on Adams is not based on any trustworthy information. I visited Adams a few times, owned a F1 flügel and never had any reason to believe they outsourced their production. They used the valves of Bauerfeind and when it became necessary for some reason they bought Bauerfeind. |
Thank you - you actually made my point. Now we have both called Adams' own material untrustworthy I suppose - though I regret that my position came across as strong as yours. I went to the Adams website, the company's "home", looking for knowledge about them. I came away appallingly, as you say, uninformed.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Divitt Trumpets
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Joined: 11 Aug 2015
Posts: 520
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| OldSchoolEuph wrote: | | delano wrote: | | Most of the time OldSchoolEuph is well informed but not in this case. His comment on Adams is not based on any trustworthy information. I visited Adams a few times, owned a F1 flügel and never had any reason to believe they outsourced their production. They used the valves of Bauerfeind and when it became necessary for some reason they bought Bauerfeind. |
Thank you - you actually made my point. Now we have both called Adams' own material untrustworthy I suppose - though I regret that my position came across as strong as yours. I went to the Adams website, the company's "home", looking for knowledge about them. I came away appallingly, as you say, uninformed. |
Where did they say Adams' material untrustworthy? Only you are saying that, despite it being very obvious they don't outsource if you spent more than 5 seconds learning about the company.
There are probably over a dozen companies that outsource their parts or entire manufacturing and do everything they can to hide it. Go pick on them for being dishonest.
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theslawdawg
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Lots of Adams bashing going on.
This forum in particular has an exhaustive catalog of Adams comments. The comments that you are referencing involving Hermokiwi was resolved, and that was more focused on his issues with a dealer, and not Adams directly. You can go either way with your opinion on that. But, once he switched dealers, he got everything he asked for with the horn he wanted. And if I'm not mistaken, he has or has had more than one Adams in his inventory.
With that said, the majority of Adams comments are very positive, with a particular focus on their use of parts in house to include valve blocks.
Additionally, ACB is the main dealer for the U.S. and a quick call to them could have answered every single question or doubt you might have had. That's what dealers are for. I had a request for a horn that I pulled back from due to the uncertainty of COVID. I had a few minor requests and every single one was met. They are good to go.
Websites for instruments aren't the end all be all. Also contacting someone direct isn't sometimes successful. That doesn't mean they are shady. For someone who does research and publishes their findings, I think you could have done a little bit more before making statements that aren't true. However, If you do find out that they are indeed shady, please let us all know with the facts that you uncovered.
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My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
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tptva004
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Posts: 23
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Divitt Trumpets wrote: |
Only for that specific model. Not the other models. |
true! I was told Paseo had chinese valves (its a great horn too!) but that was an inperson comment and not on their website. I don't see any reference to this on the Bac wesbite actually. it mention that they use tooling from "Anaheim" for their 72 style horn but does not mention the source of the valves. perhaps they're website too is not to be trusted  |
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delano
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| OldSchoolEuph wrote: | | delano wrote: | | Most of the time OldSchoolEuph is well informed but not in this case. His comment on Adams is not based on any trustworthy information. I visited Adams a few times, owned a F1 flügel and never had any reason to believe they outsourced their production. They used the valves of Bauerfeind and when it became necessary for some reason they bought Bauerfeind. |
Thank you - you actually made my point. Now we have both called Adams' own material untrustworthy I suppose - though I regret that my position came across as strong as yours. I went to the Adams website, the company's "home", looking for knowledge about them. I came away appallingly, as you say, uninformed. |
I don’t understand this. Maybe I was not clear. Often you seem to be quite well informed so I thought you had got some info abour Adams. What I tried to say is that IF you had that, it was wrong, So your Adams bashing is based on nothing and in fact not understandable.
BTW Adams is much bigger than you may presume. |
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OldSchoolEuph
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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“Bashing” is a synonym for lies. I have said nothing untrue. I believe you are crossing a line in that accusation.
I said their about page is a mission statement. It is.
I said claiming merit on “family values” is an ancient practice and going back to its inception was shady – I provided case in point.
I asked why someone would be evasive without a need – I made no accusation, only pointed out the behavior.
I said it is not clear where their horns are made. It is not – at least to me (they had to qualify that only "custom" horns are...), and I am stating MY opinion. Their website factory size and activity descriptions clash with Trent’s. I have already stated that I place more faith in his statement than theirs.
I stated their website link to information on custom options gives no detail on bore sizes or metal thicknesses. It does not.
I said Hermokiwi’s story was consistent with what happens when a custom shop relies on suppliers. It is. That is not the same as saying this was the case. I said it is “typical” of – which it is.
I then asked questions that can easily be extended to Yamaha, which sources an abundance of parts from assorted suppliers, Bach, Conn-Selmer, and many others. Where is the line that defines “making”? That is a question, not a claim regarding any particular product.
I said any time a company hides details, it makes me expect the worst. It does. And that is a product of a lot of experience. My “expectation” is not the same as an assertion that something is a certain way. And many have freely expressed that their expectation and experience is otherwise – to which I say great.
I stated that Flip does not feel the need to hide the origins of his horns. He does not – you can see that clearly, and always have, on his site.
And, I said when someone does not brag about where and how their product is made, they are, by definition, not proud of it. I see that as factual, but it is perhaps the one point behavioral theorists could maybe argue. (and before we go back to Flip, he proudly stakes his personal reputation on every horn saying never mind where it is made, it is finished and tested by him)
One of the points of forums is to share opinions. I have shared mine in this case. That many disagree is good and the point of free exchange of ideas. Plus, it speaks well of Adams and ACB. In this case, my opinion is that Adams has a poor public face (website) for a company, and that situation makes me, PERSONALLY, leery of them - I have no significant opinion on their product, as it is not widespread enough in use for me to have any exposure to it. I just dont trust a company that has a website like that. You are free to believe anything you wish, and express that view. I ask only for the same courtesy.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
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| Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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For what it's worth, their timpani are top quality too. Can attest that they're better than any other brand I've ever played.
There's plenty of instrument makers with poor quality websites, that we all know are actually at the top of their fields. While typing this, I got a 400 error trying to visit Harrelson's site...I'm not gonna argue that's an indication of where he gets materials... |
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