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Tpt_Guy
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Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1101
Location: Sacramento, Ca
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 Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Tenor Horn Fellow wrote: | | Tpt_Guy wrote: | | Tenor Horn Fellow wrote: | | RandyTX wrote: | It's worth noting that owning a note and being able to play one are not the same thing.
If you can play a double G at the end of a 3 hour gig, you have it. If you can play it once on a good day when you're still fresh, then you don't.
Play high more often, as much as you can without wounding yourself. That's the only 'magic' I've ever encountered. |
A Double G is above Double C.
http://www.trumpetmaster.com/threads/double-c-read-before-posting-anything-concerning-high-notes.45824/
Mark |
This doesn't really clarify the matter. Taking G as an example, what are the proper names of the different octaves, starting from below the staff?
If, per that link, octaves start at C, then Low G is on the second line. |
The matter has been discussed here before many times.
50 years ago everyone called the G above High C a High G.
"Pops" has posted such here.
Bud Brisbois called it that.
The moderator at Trumpet Master says such.
The naming convention was universally-recognized until young people decided that they wanted to claim a "Double G".
But young people stubbornly reject the old universally-recognized naming convention,
so it is a losing battle.
Mark |
This doean't answer my question. I'm not rejecting any naming conventions. I just run into a genuine confusion. I'll illuminate, starting from Double G coming down:
Double High G
High G
Middle??? G (atop the staff, what some call a High G)
Low??? G (second line, what some just call a G)
And below the staff would be?
I usually call notes based on where they fall in the harmonic series for the seven valve combinations. To wit, ascending from open we have Low C, Third Space C (some erroneously call it 'Middle C'), High C, Double High C. Using 1+3, ascending, Low G, G, High G, Double High G. I adopted this because I couldn't get a clear explanation and to me this made sense based on how a trumpet works.
I understand how notes are named on a piano, but even in the post on TM it is stated that our "Double C" is just a Bb on a flute, which tells me that piano naming conventions don't necessarily apply to other instruments, and that we should name notes and ranges based on our instrument's playable range, and not something else.
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2581
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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What's important is that people know what you mean when you give a note a certain name. When I call a note "double high G" I mean the 4th ledger line above the staff. When I call a note "high G" I mean the note on the first space above the staff. When I call a note "middle G" I mean the note on the second ledger line of the staff. When I call a note "low G" I mean the note on the third space below the staff.
It isn't just "young people" who call these notes what I call them. I'm 68 years old and have ALWAYS called these notes what I call them. So does every trumpet player I know. There's a rationale to that and it's a reasonable and logical rationale (whether you agree with it or not).
That being said, it's OK with me if you call these notes anything you want to call them. If I understand what you mean then we're good.
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Tenor Horn Fellow
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Joined: 17 Jun 2018
Posts: 41
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: | What's important is that people know what you mean when you give a note a certain name. When I call a note "double high G" I mean the 4th ledger line above the staff. When I call a note "high G" I mean the note on the first space above the staff. When I call a note "middle G" I mean the note on the second ledger line of the staff. When I call a note "low G" I mean the note on the third space below the staff.
It isn't just "young people" who call these notes what I call them. I'm 68 years old and have ALWAYS called these notes what I call them. So does every trumpet player I know. There's a rationale to that and it's a reasonable and logical rationale (whether you agree with it or not).
That being said, it's OK with me if you call these notes anything you want to call them. If I understand what you mean then we're good. |
"Pops" explained previously in TH
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1523446
"Pops" said:
"You are free to call them anything that you want to BUT:
Composers, Arrangers, Tuners, Students in Primary school and Players in most non US Nations, and the ITG ALL change registers at the Cs.
So A above the staff is A above the staff. A above High C is High A and Double A would be A above Double High C.
Most players around the world use the C3, D3, E3, F3, G3, A3, B3 and then C4 as the designation for the notes instead of a word name. You notice that the register changed at C.
Below is a more in depth explanation.
The piano is the instrument that most naming schemes come from.
They all stem from middle C.
Because of that the name of the register changes at the Cs.
We have approached this a little differently. We tried to name them Low middle and High. We all under stand Low G or Low C. (Even though it does not follow the other naming schemes.)
We all also understand High C (above the staff).
That leaves us with the notes starting on 2nd line G up to B below High C. Unfortunately the notes from G on the second line up to B below High C have NO common name. Middle C or 3rd space C is the exception.
The register normally changes at the Cs. But since we already call the G below the staff Low G that leaves no name for the 2nd line G. (People often refer to middle C but not middle D, E, F, G, A or B. That is because we broke a rule in naming Low G.
Therefore we say 2nd line G, G on top of the staff, 4th space E ect.
The Highs go from High C 2nd ledger line above the staff up to B 5th ledger line above the staff.
The Double register starts with Double High C on top of the 5th ledger line above the staff.
This isn't how other musicians name notes.
=============
Registers for every instrument start and change on the Cs.
In Composition, Theory, Arranging... the same rules apply for every instrument. The reason is so that they can call a note E4, F4, G4... or E', F', G'... and know what register they are talking about.
If we changed based on the lowest note then Clarinets, Sax, Trumpet... would change registers on different notes.
Clarinet has Low E and Trumpet Low F# as the lowest notes. So the 5th line F at the top of the staff would have been considered an octave displaced from the same note with the same sound on trumpet and clarinet. They simply couldn't have willy-nilly naming conventions. This wasn't usable for music nomenclature and so it was universally agreed to change at the Cs.
The ITG (International Trumpet Guild) adopted the system of changing at Cs back in the 70s. If you read many Journals you will see notes named C5, C6 or sometimes C'' or C '''.
Sadly even adopting C as the point of change we still have several methods of naming those Cs. A several hundred year old piano naming system and the tuner system are the leading systems.
The piano standard is VERY OLD. On an 88 key piano the lowest note is A. Yet the Registers were considered to change at C for hundreds of years.
Music printed in Braille use C1 - C8 to designated octaves just like tuners do.
Everyone world wide designates middle C on the piano as where the clefs change. This forever made C the starting point for registers.
==============
The C1, C2, C3, C4, C5 labeling is a way of naming these notes.
C1 is the lowest C and C8 is the highest note on an 88-key piano.
This is the system Korg tuners use.
============
Piano talk;
starting with lowest C on the piano...
Contra C (C1; CCC)
Great C (C2; CC)
Small C (C3; C) 2nd space C in bass staff
One-line C (C4; c') Middle C on piano (low C on trumpet)
Two-line C (C5; c'') 3rd space in treble staff (middle C on Trumpet)
Three-line C (C6; c''') (High C on trumpet)
Four-line C (C7; c'''') (Double High C on trumpet)
Five-line C (C8; c''''') (Triple High C on trumpet)
=========== Trumpets
Low C is 1 ledger line below the staff.
Middle C is in the third space of the staff.
High C is 2 ledger lines above the staff.
Double High C is on top of the 5th ledger line above the staff.
Triple High C is 9 ledger lines above the staff.
Quadruple High C is on top of the 12th ledger line above the staff.
These are the names that trumpet players and groups like the International Trumpet Guild have given these notes.
============
So for trumpet
Low C is C4 or C'
Middle C is C5 or C''
High C is C6 or C'''
Double high C is C7 or C''''
Triple high C is C8 or C'''''
============== "
from
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1523446
Mark
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