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Question about Taking Lessons


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yakbass
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I picked up the trumpet again 2 years ago I found a community band the thankfully took players without audition. As it turned out a bunch of the other trumpet players took lessons with a retired Coast Guard band principle chair player. Great teacher with lots of patience for 'senior" students.
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think your success with the french horn player/teacher depends on a lot of things. There are certainly areas in which he can help you...musicianship, scales, harmony, etc. You haven't said what you are hoping to get out of lessons. If you are coming back to the horn, you presumably know fingerings and have some kind of embouchure already. You didn't say whether you have any concerns about tone or range that might indicate you would be looking at an embouchure change. So all that factors in.

I don't think there is anything wrong with taking a few lessons from this person and seeing how you get along. Auditioning a few teachers is probably a good idea. I know Muncie is not the center of the earth, but 35,000 to 50,000 is not that small and Ball State has at least one trumpet playing professor of music profiled on their website. I would assume that the faculty may teach some private lessons and that grad students in music and music ed do, too. Then there is always Indianapolis an hour down the road...

My experience on returning to the trumpet after forty years was that I took a couple of lessons from a local trumpet player who also was a GR mouthpiece dealer, which is how I got hooked up with him. He wanted to work on musicianship out of the Getchell book, but didn't seem interested in my questions about embouchure. I only took a few lessons from him and continued my geeky reading about various embouchure systems (Balanced Embouchure, Callet, etc.). Eventually I happened on the website for Dave Wilken, who offered (at that time) a free lesson to anyone who would be videotaped for his ongoing embouchure research. Dave had some very interesting things to say about embouchure in general and mine in particular and I ended up going back to see him for three or four long lessons several months apart. I learned about Reinhardt concepts and stopped trying to place my mpc some prescribed way to keep it off the red of my lower lip, which was never going to happen or be successful. With my embouchure correctly placed things became basically easy and the high register that had eluded me was there with just a little practice.

I might take a few more checkup lessons with someone like Dave, and if I wanted to learn about jazz scales, musicianship, interpretation or whatever, I could pick a weekly or monthly teacher on that basis. After my experience, for technique I would pick a Reinhardt-inspired teacher. My main advice would be to audition some people and take a few lessons with the ones that seem a good bet before picking one. Ask them what their orientation is ans what their evaluation of you is and what their goals for you would be. Good luck whatever you do, it's a fascinating pastime!
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Question about Taking Lessons Reply with quote

Craig S wrote:
I'm beginning my journey along the road back to the trumpet after nearly two decades. I'll be taking my first lesson this coming Saturday. From what I was told, the teacher is primarily a french horn player (not there's anything wrong with that ). I'm curious if you trumpeters think this will be a problem in the long run? I'm not trying say anything negative about him. Heck, I've not even met him yet. I'm just wondering if I should look for someone who is primarily a trumpet player? I know that my teacher will be able to help a huge amount, especially with the basics. The town in which I live is smallish (only about 50k residents when the university here is in session, ~35k during the summer). There's only one music store that has ANYTHING for wind instruments, let alone offers lessons. The only other music store is dedicated to guitars. So, my options are limited, which means finding another instructor could be a problem. Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can impart to me!


Welcome back to the trumpet Craig!

I've been using Skype to give lessons to students all over the world (America, Europe, Singapore and Australia) for six years now with great success. My Skype students progress every bit as successfully as my in-person students do. In fact, two of my best three students (all three are professional players) are Skype students.

Sincerely,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
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khedger
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another possibility is to find a local advanced college student or graduate student who might give you some lessons. This may or may not work for you....I'm not aware of your skill level or what, exactly, you want to get out of lessons, but I thought I'd throw this out there...
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoseLindE4 wrote:
It depends on how they teach. I wouldn't worry about what they play but how well they teach. In one of his books, Keith Johnson tells a story about teaching horn players in his first college job. He taught them differently (less trumpet geeky) and they seemed to progress more than his trumpet students. The point was that lots of trumpet-specific information isn't always the best way to go.

Brass instruments aren't all that different from each other. I'd go into it with an open mind.

Edited to add: Three of the dedicated forums on this site are non-trumpet playing teachers.


Before Keith started at UNI, my dad, a horn player and commercial trumpet player, taught all the brass majors. He had some very successful students on french horn , trombone and trumpet. It isn't all that different. I took a break from trumpet lessons at U of Minnesota and studied with the 3rd horn in the orchestra, My trumpet range improved dramatically!. Just saying.
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Craig S
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My reason for taking lessons is the fact that I just don't know where to start to begin again. I guess I'm mostly looking for some guidance for my solo practice. I also know that my embouchure and endurance are nothing compared to what they once were, but that is to be expected after not playing for so many years. I also need feedback on my sound and anything I can/should do to enhance/fix my embouchure. I realize, at least the theory I agree with the most (as I have been doing research on embouchures as well), is the idea that there is no one "right" way to form one, but there are basic tenants that apply to all. My teeth are, for lack of better term, different (They came in wherever they wanted!), which will give me a much different embouchure than someone with straight teeth. I have a tendency to place my mpc a bit left of center, but I get a decent note that way.

I have given myself a refresher on fingerings and a handful of major scales. So, that shouldn't be much of an issue other than perhaps alternate fingerings that would help intonation on certain notes. While I did play in middle and high schools, I never actually took lessons. So, this will be the first lesson I've ever had. I was given pointers by other students, those who helped with the band, and, of course, the director. However, I never took an actual one-on-one lesson.

My reason for wanting to get back to playing is simply because I miss playing. I didn't really realize how much until I saw a friend of mine working through a piece. She, he husband, and their son are all learning string instruments and are taking lessons. That was really the impetus for taking out my horn. Now, that I have played a little bit the past week and a half, I'm glad that I got it back out and that I'm taking lessons!

My goal is, at some point down the road, to play in some sort of group setting. That could mean the community band around here, the community group that BSU puts on every summer, or just a small group of other players. Of course, that won't be until I feel some sort of confidence in my playing. At this point, I have very little.

As far as other teachers, I have thought about talking to the Department of Music at Ball State to see if their trumpet professor gives lessons, or if they could recommend one of their trumpet students. That is an idea for the fall, at this point. the semester ends in another week or two. Many professors don't teach courses in the summer. They work on their own things or travel and give seminars, etc. Many students back home for the summer, or, if they take courses, the courses are much more condensed with more time constraints. So, that is on the back burner for the moment. There is a TH member who lives in Muncie and has reached out to offer lessons. After this Saturday (the lesson I have signed up for), I will try to evaluate what and how the horn player teaches, and get in touch with the THer and discuss things with him.

Note: My edits were to fix grammatical errors because I'm a bit OCD.
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FreddieSullivan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you for such detailed advice.
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RobertCharlton
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FreddieSullivan wrote:
thank you for such detailed advice.

Yes, nowadays, advice on education floods the Internet. The hardest part is filtering out all these tips and not drowning. I think the best advice is to remember to play and work on yourself. I remember I had a problem with the time for classes; I eliminated them using a special service https://studymoose.com/dog I ordered scientific papers so as not to write them myself. And he spent as much time with the music. The rest is controversial. For many musicians, the search for the most effective self-study methods is simply procrastination in its purest form.


Last edited by RobertCharlton on Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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harryjamesworstnightmare
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The number one take away from any teacher is to learn to play musically. If this teacher plays trumpet and horn then he/she is aware of the differences in embouchure and there should be no issues. I played trumpet and horn in college and can say that I had no problem switching between the two. The differences are not unlike switching between flugel horn and trumpet. I consider myself a brass teacher, not a trumpet teacher. There are differences but far more similarities.
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khedger
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about Taking Lessons Reply with quote

Craig S wrote:
I'm beginning my journey along the road back to the trumpet after nearly two decades. I'll be taking my first lesson this coming Saturday. From what I was told, the teacher is primarily a french horn player (not there's anything wrong with that ). I'm curious if you trumpeters think this will be a problem in the long run? I'm not trying say anything negative about him. Heck, I've not even met him yet. I'm just wondering if I should look for someone who is primarily a trumpet player? I know that my teacher will be able to help a huge amount, especially with the basics. The town in which I live is smallish (only about 50k residents when the university here is in session, ~35k during the summer). There's only one music store that has ANYTHING for wind instruments, let alone offers lessons. The only other music store is dedicated to guitars. So, my options are limited, which means finding another instructor could be a problem. Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can impart to me!


Personally, I'd look for a trumpet player as a teacher. The French horn player can give you some basic brass playing theory and basic musical fundamentals, but french horn is a VERY different animal than the trumpet. The relationship to the mouthpiece is totally different and the technique for blowing and getting a good sound on a french horn is different than a trumpet. That's just my opinion....

keith
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jpt8trpt
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Initially, what instrument doesn't really matter, but over time when you want to fix issues that may come up, a trumpet player will be ideal. As I comeback to my trumpet, I'm literally just trying to enjoy playing and not think to much. It has been enjoyable to not focus on where my tongue hits, or whether my embouchure is moving to much. Crazy thing? I play better, lol.

Take lessons, with whoever at first, enjoy playing, and Happy Holiday's!
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My dad taught all brass at UNI in Iowa. He was an Eastman trained French horn player and also a commercial trumpet player. He taught Barb Butler for 6 years. Not too shabby.

Arnold Jacobs taught everybody.
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Heim
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig S wrote:
Heim wrote:
Craig S wrote:
Skype lessons is an option??? How does one go about finding a teacher for that sort of instruction?


Why don't you ask a local band director for names? You should do better that way than at a music store.


Do you mean school band directors or community band directors?


I was thinking of school band directors but a community band director ought to know some also. All the community band directors who I have known have been school band directors at some point in their careers.
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Heim
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Kennedy wrote:
My dad taught all brass at UNI in Iowa. He was an Eastman trained French horn player and also a commercial trumpet player. He taught Barb Butler for 6 years. Not too shabby.

Arnold Jacobs taught everybody.


It is great to have motivated students.
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wilder
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig S wrote:
My reason for taking lessons is the fact that I just don't know where to start to begin again. I guess I'm mostly looking for some guidance for my solo practice. I also know that my embouchure and endurance are nothing compared to what they once were, but that is to be expected after not playing for so many years. I also need feedback on my sound and anything I can/should do to enhance/fix my embouchure. I realize, at least the theory I agree with the most (as I have been doing research on embouchures as well), is the idea that there is no one "right" way to form one, but there are basic tenants that apply to all. My teeth are, for lack of better term, different (They came in wherever they wanted!), which will give me a much different embouchure than someone with straight teeth. I have a tendency to place my mpc a bit left of center, but I get a decent note that way.

I have given myself a refresher on fingerings and a handful of major scales. So, that shouldn't be much of an issue other than perhaps alternate fingerings that would help intonation on certain notes. While I did play in middle and high schools, I never actually took lessons. So, this will be the first lesson I've ever had. I was given pointers by other students, those who helped with the band, and, of course, the director. However, I never took an actual one-on-one lesson.

My reason for wanting to get back to playing is simply because I miss playing. I didn't really realize how much until I saw a friend of mine working through a piece. She, he husband, and their son are all learning string instruments and are taking lessons. That was really the impetus for taking out my horn. Now, that I have played a little bit the past week and a half, I'm glad that I got it back out and that I'm taking lessons!

My goal is, at some point down the road, to play in some sort of group setting. That could mean the community band around here, the community group that BSU puts on every summer, or just a small group of other players. Of course, that won't be until I feel some sort of confidence in my playing. At this point, I have very little.

As far as other teachers, I have thought about talking to the Department of Music at Ball State to see if their trumpet professor gives lessons, or if they could recommend one of their trumpet students. That is an idea for the fall, at this point. the semester ends in another week or two. Many professors don't teach courses in the summer. They work on their own things or travel and give seminars, etc. Many students back home for the summer, or, if they take courses, the courses are much more condensed with more time constraints. So, that is on the back burner for the moment. There is a TH member who lives in Muncie and has reached out to offer lessons. After this Saturday (the lesson I have signed up for), I will try to evaluate what and how the horn player teaches, and get in touch with the THer and discuss things with him.

Note: My edits were to fix grammatical errors because I'm a bit OCD.
Hi. You need to study with a trumpet player that knows how to teach ASAP. I mean it. jw
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a concise article about private lessons vs. trying to do it on your own. It's used by permission because it is a page from a recently released book. It's a quick read. Feel free to use the share links on the following page.

https://www.purtle.com/teach-myself-or-take-private-lessons
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trickg
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is almost 3 years old. Are we still addressing the original poster? Did CraigS continue to play? He only posted here between April and August of 2018.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is yet one more person who tried to make a comeback, but didn't manage to follow through because they couldn't get past the same life issues and distractions that caused them to stop playing in the first place.
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