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Braces-Please tell your students/parents


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Billy B
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 5:44 am    Post subject: Braces-Please tell your students/parents Reply with quote

Invisilign is the new benchmark.
Cost is equivalent and in most cases actually takes less time.

The only caveat is kids will sometimes not wear them regularly.

https://www.invisalign.com/

https://happytoothnc.com/braces-vs-invisalign/
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, and teachers/students might want to do an Internet search for "options to invisalign." I went through an Invisalign treatment after years of playing, and it helped with my recovery from focal dystonia. Can't say that would help all with such disorders, but it definitely helped save/prolong my career. Now, there are similar treatments to Invisalign on the market that players/students can consider.
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Lawler Bb
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a student who just got braces and went Invisalign. Virtually no effect on his trumpet playing. After teaching/guiding dozens of students through braces, this is flat out amazing.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has been an interesting observation over the years how many young aspiring players have had their playing severely compromised by braces. I think the only kid I have ever seen come out of it on the other side and actually be as good as they were before was my older sister, but she practiced tirelessly to maintain her chops, all through having braces, and then to rebuild once she got them off.

A good friend of mine and my main competition growing up was destroyed by braces. He and I battled for 1st chair all through our 8th grade year, but he got braces going into his 9th grade year, and lost everything. Another friend came out of it ok, but his playing was never the same, and I could tell it frustrated him.

I've read story after story on these boards over the years about kids who played well, got braces, got their teeth straightened, got their braces removed, and their playing was toast.

Hopefully Invisalign replaces traditional braces altogether.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dentists and parents are oblivious.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
Dentists and parents are oblivious.

This is so true! The orthodontist with whom I was working wrote his master's thesis on Invisalign(!) and has continued to keep up with all of the latest developments, so I would say that he knows more than most in the industry. (And believe me when I tell you, that they don't all know the same amount!...just like...ahem, us trumpet players!) When it came to working on my mouth, I had to spend considerable time explaining the particulars as a professional brass player. He was very open to learning. (It could have been worse, if he was the type that believed he knew everything there is to know, right?!) But it still took time for me to explain why certain things would not work, like putting these tabs (sorry, I've since blocked out the name of them due to the trauma!) on the sides of my teeth to hold the rubber bands in place. He initially had his assistant put them on, and I was asking what was going on the whole time. After they were on, he said to give it a try. Well, I didn't have my horn with me! So I had to drive home (25 minutes one way!), and just as I suspected, every time my chops moved from high to low, et al, the sides of my mouth rubbed against these things, and they had a pointedness to them! Yeah, not fun. And yes, I was in the chair the next day having them removed.

To me, I'd think they would know better, that something like that would be obvious, especially after I had spent time telling them so much about how things work for us. Initially, he wanted to put these stationary tabs on my front two teeth. They are for the custom notches that would have been molded into my Invisalign aligners and are there to help with the movement of the teeth over a period of time. I said that would not work, so he had to take another route.

I could make several points with all of this, but mainly that it will be pot luck for kids getting these and the orthodontist making any kind of concessions on alternate approaches similar to what I received. My ortho knows pretty much all there is to know about them, but he would not have considered taking some of these alternate approaches if I hadn't stood my ground and said no. Now, do you think your students or their parents will be able to do that, or that their ortho will even listen to them?! Again, lots of luck with this for your students. I definitely am in favor of these over braces, but it really does depend on the openness and smarts of the ortho.
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with braces, dentists and orthodontists is that parents and the PLAYERS are oblivious to the issues braces can cause to a kid's playing. This then impacts on their self identity - especially if they are heavily invested in their music making - and things can go south very fast if they are not guided well through this process.

We no have one of our most promising young kids suffering after getting braces with almost no notice. 2 train tracks of lovely old fashioned braces. his orthodontist wouldn't offer invisalign. And thy didn't even think of going for a second opinion elsewhere.

Sigh.

That said, with good assistance, most kids can cope and come out the other end of this playing well. I know of one rather well down trumpet player, now a principal trumpet, who suffered terribly with braces as a kid. He did OK...

cheers

Andy
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think invisilign would market their product to band directorsa nd brass teachers.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By coincidence, I just had a dentist appointment and was told that my top front crown has failed and is both infected and beyond repair. I'm now looking forward to an extraction, implant AND Invisalign or braces (and the associated financial ruin). Even said that the Invisalign can be made with a bogus tooth to fill the spot until the implant can be fit with a new tooth. Even said that I should be able to play on the Invisaligns, which I am highly suspect of.

I was told that Invisaligns will cost about 1/3 more than regular braces but it is really the only option for a brass player. I hope the insurance company agrees, assuming they cover orthodontics at all at my age.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, during treatment I removed my aligners when I practiced and performed. My ortho did say that wearing the aligners should be a minimum of 20 hours per 24-hr period, only removing them to eat and clean your teeth. He also said that if it dipped below 18 hrs in a 24-hr period (during the Invisalign treatment period, which for me lasted three years!), then the teeth might not move as projected. I never told him that it dipped below that 18-hr point many times, but my teeth still moved. Just saying. I'm sure it would be different from one person to the next, but that's what I did. He also had the aligners made in smaller-than-normal increments of change, so that I was changing to new aligners every week, instead of the normal two-week period. This was to allow my chops to adjust more gradually and was something that I specifically requested in our initial consult.

I still wear my Invisalign-type of retainer nightly and will for the rest of my days. They do wear out in time and will require replacements, btw. I can tell when I put them in at night that especially the upper retainer displays some "tightness," which means that my teeth have moved some during the day. I know this is from moderate mouthpiece pressure and did not need my ortho to tell me anything about that. In an ordinary situation (a non-trumpeter), the teeth would have "settled" into a fairly permanent state and would be less prone to shifting any during the day, but my situation is far from normal, and I'm willing to submit to the discipline of wearing these every night. I do have a permanent wire retainer along the front of the bottom teeth, like most people that get braces, and this is not a problem...except for flossing, which requires a special technique where the wire is. I ended up getting a Waterpik with electric toothbrush combo, and the waterpik function is great...really helps to removed small stuff...nuts, granola, et al. If I could get away with never eating, I would. I hate having to clean my teeth, but I do it every time before playing any of my horns.
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jjtrumpets
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just this week I had a student mention that she'd gotten Invsalign. She said she could have them off just 2 hours a day. I told her that is her practice time!

Braces that can be removed for teeth cleaning and trumpet practice sounds like a great idea. ---Particularly for the student whose self-esteem is connected to playing the trumpet.

I'm glad I talked my mom out of getting me braces in junior high. Too bad I had to wait until my senior year in college to start studying with a Bill Adam student!
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjtrumpets wrote:
...I told her that is her practice time!...


I'm sure the ortho would say that those two hours are intended for eating, drinking, and teeth cleaning. But if she follows your directive, and drinks water, I recon she could last up to a month!
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trumphat
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only had one student that I was able to talk his dad out of braces and he went on to make all state. The worst is when there's no warning/discussion and the student just shows up for a lesson with a mouthful of metal.
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iiipopes
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, this thread reminds me of my horrific experiences in high school band with braces, wires and retainers. Even switching to sousaphone for marching, I always ended up with a mouthful of blood. I do hope these new braces are better.

My school band director tried to help, letting players switch to euph or tuba for the interim, allowing those who wanted to return to trumpet afterwards to do so. But the state of the Orthondontic arts in the late '70's just wasn't there for brass players.

Thanks for reporting there are better alternatives now.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My girlfriend is office manager for a locally prominent cosmetic dentist. She says a primary reason that kids end up with traditional braces rather than Invisalign is because kids, being kids, will tend to either not leave the Invisalign trays in, or worse, lose them. Makes sense, unfortunately, although it’s a shame that young aspiring trumpet players so often have to deal with traditional braces.

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Billy B
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Invisilign also eliminates a large number of those office visits. $$$$
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
Invisilign also eliminates a large number of those office visits. $$$$

I was told that the 30% premium for Invisaligns includes all the maintenance visits.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
Billy B wrote:
Invisilign also eliminates a large number of those office visits. $$$$

I was told that the 30% premium for Invisaligns includes all the maintenance visits.


That has changed. Pretty much the entire system is computer/CAD driven.
The patient now gets a new tray weekly and the cost is now comparable to braces. Missing is the periodic adjustments and office visits. In fact, your regular dentist does it all. No visits to see a specialist.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
cheiden wrote:
Billy B wrote:
Invisilign also eliminates a large number of those office visits. $$$$

I was told that the 30% premium for Invisaligns includes all the maintenance visits.


That has changed. Pretty much the entire system is computer/CAD driven.
The patient now gets a new tray weekly and the cost is now comparable to braces. Missing is the periodic adjustments and office visits. In fact, your regular dentist does it all. No visits to see a specialist.

Just two weeks ago I was referred to an orthodontist by my dentist. The orthodontist gave me quotes for both Invisaligns and traditional braces. So my information is very recent. Perhaps the experience varies in other areas.
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Last edited by cheiden on Thu May 24, 2018 9:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nikoloas17
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was mildly fortunate in high school when I went in for my regular cleaning, at a new dental office. The assistant immediately started in on me about needing braces (my teeth ARE messed up, but it doesn't impair me any, so I don't care to suffer the financial and physical hardships). I flat out said not happening. She didn't like that.

When the dentist came in and got to work, she mentioned it too. No shock, that's part of the job. I told her there was no way in hell, and to her credit, she asked my reasons. I explained that I was a trumpet player, and braces were a nightmare to me and all my kindred souls. To my surprise and delight, she just nodded, said she understood, as her siblings had all played various instruments, thus giving her some small measure of insight into the physics of woodwind/brass playing, and that was the end of that discussion.

TL;DR - Had a dentist understand that braces suck for brass players, and didn't pressure me into them. There are some in that field that do get it, so hope exists for better understanding going forward.
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