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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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Location: Suffolk, England
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 Posted: Sun May 13, 2018 4:28 am Post subject: New Yamaha Xeno model? |
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Hi
I was looking at the prices for Yamaha Xeno trumpets, for someone who has tried and really likes my Xeno II, and has no access to the internet.
I noticed that Yamaha Music London list a Mk II and Mk IV version:
https://www.yamahamusiclondon.com/YTR-8335-Mk-II-Custom-Xeno-Bb-Trumpet-In-Various-Editions/pidBYTR833502-SUPER
https://www.yamahamusiclondon.com/YTR-8335-Mk-IV-Custom-Xeno-Bb-Trumpet/pidBYTR8335-04-SUPER
I initially wondered whether it was a website mistake, owing to differences in the Xeno series nomenclature being different in different regions, such as I believe the YTR-6335H being the Xeno I in Japan, YTR-6335HGII being the Xeno 2 in Japan, first UK version YTR-8335 Xeno being the Xeno III in Japan, and YTR-8335 II being the Xeno 4 in Japan (I think I have this right).
Therefore when I kept finding the Xeno IV on UK websites, I presumed that it was just another way of naming my Yamaha Xeno II trumpet.
I've however found this on the Phil Parker website:
DISCLAIMER: WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO SELL Mk.II OR Mk.IV MODELS DEPENDING ON STOCK LEVELS AT TIME OF ORDERING
Taken from:
https://www.philparker.biz/index.php/instruments/trumpet/bb-trumpet/pro-trumpets/yamaha-ytr8335-04-xeno-mk-iv-bb-trumpet.html
The description for the Mk IV seems the same as the Mk II.
Does anyone know about a new Xeno model for the UK market (and possibly other markets), and how it differs from my Xeno II?
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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hackney_wick
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Joined: 08 Jun 2012
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2018 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2018 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| hackney_wick wrote: | I also had noticed this - there are mk 2 and mk 4 9335 NY models as well although the new Vizutti is mk 4 only - but forgot about it.
The mk 4 are more expensive but as you say the differences are otherwise not explained. Most of their trumpets do not have mk numbers at all.
There is a q&a facility on the Yamaha London website under the specs for each model so I have sent a query asking them to explain the difference.
I have a bee in my bonnet about Yamaha prices, especially the difference between 8 and 9 series B flat trumpets. |
Hi hackney_wick
Thank you very much.
I agree with you regarding the large difference in price between the 8 and 9 series B flat trumpets, hence why I have the 8335 Xeno II. Since it was truly a case of me not being able to afford the extra for the 9335CHII or 9335NYII, rather than simply not being able to justify the difference in price, I've never tried a 9 series trumpet, and cannot therefore comment on whether they are sufficiently different from my Xeno to justify the huge difference in price. I suspect not, and even if there is quite a difference, especially in an orchestral setting, I cannot see why anyone would need a better Yamaha Bb than the Xeno II. Sure, if someone has the money or is playing enough to justify the price, fair enough, but I am pretty sure that the Xeno II would not limit a professional player in anyway.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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hackney_wick
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| hackney_wick wrote: | "I am pretty sure that the Xeno II would not limit a professional player in anyway."
Doesn't seem to, does it?
But I anticipate incoming mail about only discerning players being truly able to appreciate the 9 series.
Hi hackney_wick
I thought of this before I posted, and see two sides to it, on one hand a player being so good that they can make any trumpet sound good, and on the other hand, a player needing to be good enough to appreciate the difference.
Since I haven't played the 9 series and reported that I cannot tell any difference lol, I can't personally be accused of not being a good enough player to tell the difference  .
I'm wondering if Yamaha are simply introducing a price increase for the Xeno and are being their usual polite, discreet selves about it. It has been very reasonably priced for a very long time considering it is a quality product and market leader.
Quite possibly you are right.
I don't play Yamaha, but if it make sense to describe any large corporation as 'reputable' it must be them. I can't imagine them being engulfed in any kind of scandal and I hope I will never be proved wrong.
No, I'm sure that there is no scandal or anything disreputable going on. There is probably a really subtle change between the Xeno II and IV (I wonder why there was no III?). It doesn't bother me, since my Xeno II adequately gets the job done with me on the end. I also have a Yamaha cornet, the Xeno rather than the Neo. I haven't played the Neo, so cannot say whether it is better, merely different, or so similar to the Xeno, that you'd never notice the difference without a direct comparison, and to be perfectly honest I don't care, as my Xeno again gets the job done with me on the end, and changing my cornet is not on my list of priorities.
All the best
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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kandor
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Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 113
Location: Bremen, Germany
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2018 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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A Yamaha insider, on another forum, wrote that actually there are no changes in the instrument itself, only in the case/accessories/packaging, but enough to give it a different item number.
I'm not sure, but if you take a look at the Yamaha spare parts catalog:
http://parts-search.yamaha.co.jp/html/WIND_ENGLISH/orders/search_result_e.php?m=&p=&k=&bc=002&mc=002_001&sc=002_001_001
you will see YTR-8335 and YTR-8335(2), but no YTR-8335(4) at all.
By the way, this catalog (you can only look at it, you cannot place orders) is also useful to examine all the not so obvious changes occurred between different editions of any Yamaha model.
_________________
Yamaha, Bach, B&S, Kuehnl & Hoyer |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2018 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| kandor wrote: | A Yamaha insider, on another forum, wrote that actually there are no changes in the instrument itself, only in the case/accessories/packaging, but enough to give it a different item number.
I'm not sure, but if you take a look at the Yamaha spare parts catalog:
http://parts-search.yamaha.co.jp/html/WIND_ENGLISH/orders/search_result_e.php?m=&p=&k=&bc=002&mc=002_001&sc=002_001_001
you will see YTR-8335 and YTR-8335(2), but no YTR-8335(4) at all.
By the way, this catalog (you can only look at it, you cannot place orders) is also useful to examine all the not so obvious changes occurred between different editions of any Yamaha model. |
Hi kandor
Thanks very much. I'll have a look again on the Yamaha Music London website, but even the case looks to be the same as for my Xeno II.
I'll also take a look at the Yamaha parts catalogue.
Thanks very much again.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Hi kandor
I've had a look at the Yamaha parts catalogue, and noticed something which I've found before from serial number lists, that although my trumpet is definitely a Xeno II and has all the features of the Xeno II, its serial number is actually over 1000 below the starting serial number for the Xeno II.
I bought my trumpet as an ex-demo in October 2015, and am not sure whether it being an ex-demo has anything to do with the serial number anomaly.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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jhahntpt
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Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 676
Location: Southington CT
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:16 am Post subject: |
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Just to throw my two cents in, I adore my 9335NY gen 1. I played a Bach 37 for years before I made this switch and it was the best idea I've had. The tone is better IMO and the facility I have on the instrument increased dramatically. All aspects of playing are much easier than on my Bach and I can't see myself going back!
I actually didn't care for the Gen 2 New York Bb when played side by side with mine. I found the 8335II to be pretty close to my 9335NY and if not for the deal I got on mine I would have found a 8335II instead. $4600 is simply too much for a trumpet when that's not my main source of income.
_________________
Bb: Yamaha 9335NY Gen3
Bb: Yamaha 8310Z
C: Shires 4S/W1B
Piccolo: Yamaha 9830
Flugel: Yamaha 8315G
Cornet: York Eminence |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| jhahntpt wrote: | Just to throw my two cents in, I adore my 9335NY gen 1. I played a Bach 37 for years before I made this switch and it was the best idea I've had. The tone is better IMO and the facility I have on the instrument increased dramatically. All aspects of playing are much easier than on my Bach and I can't see myself going back!
Hi jhahntpt
I'm really pleased to hear this.
I actually didn't care for the Gen 2 New York Bb when played side by side with mine. I found the 8335II to be pretty close to my 9335NY and if not for the deal I got on mine I would have found a 8335II instead. $4600 is simply too much for a trumpet when that's not my main source of income.
Interesting, thanks.
Best wishes
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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kandor
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Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 113
Location: Bremen, Germany
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | Hi kandor
I've had a look at the Yamaha parts catalogue, and noticed something which I've found before from serial number lists, that although my trumpet is definitely a Xeno II and has all the features of the Xeno II, its serial number is actually over 1000 below the starting serial number for the Xeno II.
I bought my trumpet as an ex-demo in October 2015, and am not sure whether it being an ex-demo has anything to do with the serial number anomaly.
All the best
Lou |
Ah, this sounds very strange to me.
My Xeno-II is a YTR-8335S(2) with serial #53651X, bought in July 2015.
Maybe you could call Yamaha's Customer Service to investigate.
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Yamaha, Bach, B&S, Kuehnl & Hoyer |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| kandor wrote: | | Louise Finch wrote: | Hi kandor
I've had a look at the Yamaha parts catalogue, and noticed something which I've found before from serial number lists, that although my trumpet is definitely a Xeno II and has all the features of the Xeno II, its serial number is actually over 1000 below the starting serial number for the Xeno II.
I bought my trumpet as an ex-demo in October 2015, and am not sure whether it being an ex-demo has anything to do with the serial number anomaly.
All the best
Lou |
Ah, this sounds very strange to me.
My Xeno-II is a YTR-8335S(2) with serial #53651X, bought in July 2015.
Maybe you could call Yamaha's Customer Service to investigate. |
Hi kandor
I don't suppose it matters, as it definitely is a Xeno II and has all the features of the Xeno II, but my serial number starts with 525. It is not my eyes, as I have confirmed what I am seeing with the serial number on my invoice. I'm guessing that my trumpet is from 2013.
I have however completed the contact form on the Yamaha website, asking them about the serial number of my trumpet.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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hackney_wick
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Joined: 08 Jun 2012
Posts: 312
Location: Gone away
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:28 am Post subject: |
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Delete
Last edited by hackney_wick on Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Hi hackney_wick
I contacted Yamaha Customer services, and was advised the same.
Hi Kandor
I queried the serial number of my Xeno at the same time, and they advised that they are waiting to hear back from their colleagues in Japan regarding this, and will let me know when they hear.
All the best to you both
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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kandor
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 113
Location: Bremen, Germany
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | Hi hackney_wick
I contacted Yamaha Customer services, and was advised the same.
Hi Kandor
I queried the serial number of my Xeno at the same time, and they advised that they are waiting to hear back from their colleagues in Japan regarding this, and will let me know when they hear.
All the best to you both
Lou |
Thank you for sharing, and then please let us know.
At this point I am really curious !
_________________
Yamaha, Bach, B&S, Kuehnl & Hoyer |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| kandor wrote: |
Thank you for sharing, and then please let us know.
At this point I am really curious ! |
Hi Kandor
I will do. I'm curious too. My trumpet has all the features of the Xeno II. Since I don't know how the lighter valve block of the Xeno II differs visually from the Xeno I, I am wondering whether I could have a Xeno I valve block, but probably not, as it wouldn't make much sense for such a trumpet to be a demo. All I know is that I bought it from a respected UK retailer, who normally stock the 8335G on silver or 8335R in lacquer (mine is the 8335 in lacquer), as a demo. They offered me a very good trade in price on my as new 928 Sovereign cornet, and the small amount to pay, came within my limited budget.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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trompette229
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Joined: 21 Mar 2016
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| This may have been covered but the Xeno II can be differentiated by the tuning fork logo on the bell (which isn't present on the Xeno I) but the model numbers remained the same. |
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kandor
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Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 113
Location: Bremen, Germany
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | | kandor wrote: |
Thank you for sharing, and then please let us know.
At this point I am really curious ! |
Hi Kandor
I will do. I'm curious too. My trumpet has all the features of the Xeno II. Since I don't know how the lighter valve block of the Xeno II differs visually from the Xeno I, I am wondering whether I could have a Xeno I valve block, but probably not, as it wouldn't make much sense for such a trumpet to be a demo. All I know is that I bought it from a respected UK retailer, who normally stock the 8335G on silver or 8335R in lacquer (mine is the 8335 in lacquer), as a demo. They offered me a very good trade in price on my as new 928 Sovereign cornet, and the small amount to pay, came within my limited budget.
All the best
Lou |
As far as the the valve block is concerned, you can test it in a matter of seconds, because the pistons are slightly different.
Pull out, say, the first piston, and look at how it is stamped.
"1H" belongs to a Xeno-I, while "1NH" belongs to the Xeno-II.
I am pretty sure because I own both editions of the Xeno.
_________________
Yamaha, Bach, B&S, Kuehnl & Hoyer |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| trompette229 wrote: | | This may have been covered but the Xeno II can be differentiated by the tuning fork logo on the bell (which isn't present on the Xeno I) but the model numbers remained the same. |
Hi trompette229
Yes, my Xeno has the tuning fork logo on the bell, in addition to all the other Xeno II features.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Hi Kandor
Thank you very much. My pistons are are labelled NH.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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