• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Double Major?


Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Schools
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Croquethed
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 609
Location: Oakville, CT

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Follow your bliss, discover that which you cannot live without, and always follow that with passion. You may change your mind on the specifics of your vocational direction several or many times throughout your life, but a skill for which you have talent and passion will always come through and you will find a way to pay the rent and then some.

I knew a member of a very famous rock band from the 60s who went back to school after the band broke up to get a PhD in medieval history - talk about things with "no marketable value" in conventional terms unless one is a professor or dragon game creator.

When I knew him he was a tugboat captain who commuted between work in Texas and his home in the Hudson Valley. He was also an extremely gracious and community-minded man who lent his talent to the local symphony, and by all appearances was a very content human being.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dr_trumpet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 2532
Location: Cope, IN

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many have suggested going the route of omitting the music major. Why would one want to pursue a major in music? In two words, "Ensemble Assignments". Most schools of music have to make sure they have enough players to create an ensemble. Trumpet is a very popular instrument. Therefore, many times, in schools I've attended and taught, all or most all assignments in ensembles are done with majors first, as they are required to have the music ensemble credit to graduate.

As an undergrad, marching band had non-majors, as did the concert band. The jazz groups, the wind ensemble, and the orchestra had only majors; non-majors only played if there were not enough majors to fill the seats. And, were a major to come, non-majors lost the seat.

As a graduate, I played with the local orchestras and never played with the school groups. They accepted that for my degree. Still, marching and concert were the only two groups with non-majors playing.

At IU, there were rarely any non-majors in anything but the athletic bands. There was an all-campus group or two, and every once in a while, a superb non-major. But with 20 orchestra spots for 120 trumpet majors, 20 jazz spots, and 30-40 total spots in all of the concert bands, there were majors who had to sing in choir because they could not make a group. Non-majors had no chance to make a group.

So, depending upon the location and the circumstance, you might have to be a music major to participate and grow in the groups you want to perform. It is a series of issues that exist because the school of music has a responsibility to majors first, and despite talent, those majors must have their degree credits in ensemble to graduate.

Hope this gives some additional information/consideration to the process,

AL
_________________
Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mafields627
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Nov 2001
Posts: 3774
Location: AL

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dr_trumpet wrote:
But with 20 orchestra spots for 120 trumpet majors, 20 jazz spots, and 30-40 total spots in all of the concert bands, there were majors who had to sing in choir because they could not make a group. Non-majors had no chance to make a group.


Makes me wonder if the majors would be better served having fewer students. The non-majors definitely would. Somewhere there's a balance between having enough to have opportunities and have so many that it prevents opportunities.
_________________
--Matt--

No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kalijah
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points AL.

I was mostly interested in the jazz ensembles in college. It was amazing how many majors were not interested in jazz. I was able to play in the top ensemble the majority of the time. Perhaps had there been more interest from performance majors I would have been squeezed out. I would then have considered a second major declaration for the ensemble opportunities.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
snichols
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Posts: 586
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mafields627 wrote:
dr_trumpet wrote:
But with 20 orchestra spots for 120 trumpet majors, 20 jazz spots, and 30-40 total spots in all of the concert bands, there were majors who had to sing in choir because they could not make a group. Non-majors had no chance to make a group.


Makes me wonder if the majors would be better served having fewer students. The non-majors definitely would. Somewhere there's a balance between having enough to have opportunities and have so many that it prevents opportunities.


Mafields, you're absolutely right, but that's money for the school. The more majors you have in your school, the more budget money that's allocated to your school. So while I think it's irresponsible to have schools with those kinds of numbers of music students, especially if they are not equipped with the appropriate ensembles to enrich them, they will keep pushing on because that's how they meet their funding needs and because people will keep attending and paying tuition.

I'm going to actually disagree with Albert. Firstly because giving preference to majors for ensembles is completely school-dependent. That might be the case at some of the more competitive programs like Indiana, but at smaller, less competitive schools, the ensemble directors are going to take talent where they can get it. We had a few non-majors in our top ensembles at both schools I attended.

I simply don't see how all of the extra coursework involved with another major is worth premium ensemble placement (assuming that's even an issue at the school and assuming you are good enough to be in the top ensembles). A double major in two completely different fields with no overlap is going to be a lot of coursework, and you'd likely be there for 5 or 6 years. Also, even if you go to a school like Indiana with 120 trumpeters and you're forced to be in the 2nd or 3rd tier ensemble, it's supposedly fulfilling enough for the majors that are in the group, so why wouldn't that be good enough for the OP? At many schools the 2nd tier ensembles will still be decent and at the "good", competitive music schools, the 2nd tier ensembles will be quite good and rewarding.

So basically, unless you can't see yourself doing anything else other than being a musician (performer, teacher, composer, etc.), and that is your absolute dream and you're going to really invest in that goal, it's not worth majoring in music. Pursue your main major, audition for ensembles, take lessons, and take the available music courses that interest you. The world can always use more musicians, but it doesn't need any more music majors...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dr_trumpet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 2532
Location: Cope, IN

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

snichols wrote:


I'm going to actually disagree with Albert. Firstly because giving preference to majors for ensembles is completely school-dependent. That might be the case at some of the more competitive programs like Indiana, but at smaller, less competitive schools, the ensemble directors are going to take talent where they can get it. We had a few non-majors in our top ensembles at both schools I attended.


More of a different experience than a disagreement. I'm discussing the following experiences:

One year at Ball State in Muncie, IN (non-majors only in athletic bands and the third concert band while I was there). All positions in all groups decided by audition.

Three years at DePauw University in Greencastle, IN (non-majors in athletic bands, concert bands, and anywhere else they were needed, but they were the first to bail on band if their course load got too hard, and the directors made spots for the majors first most of the time, so they might not be needed every semester). All positions in all groups decided by audition.

Two years at Butler University in Indy (non-majors in athletic bands and concert bands, wind ensemble and jazz ensemble, as well as orchestra, filled with majors by audition, might have a couple strings who were not majors, but the time commitment limited that). All positions in all groups decided by audition.

Six years at Jacobs School of Music at IU in Bloomington (Majors in all ensembles, and occasional non-major in the lower level orchestras (there were five), in the third or fourth jazz band, maybe a 3rd or 4th concert band, as the spots open to non-majors were in the athletic bands and the all-campus bands. All positions in all groups decided by audition.

I have taught for 6 years at Marian University. We have majors and non-majors, but even non-majors are often there on a scholarship and that means they are a part of the school. If the issue were enough majors to fill a section, the non-majors are asked to switch to a different instrument, even in marching band. All positions in all groups decided by audition.

So, while I understand what you are saying, and I grant fully it could and does happen, my experiences have never been at a place where I have been a teacher or a student.

And that isn't meant to negate your experiences or your point...

AL
_________________
Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Schools All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group