Kanstul 1525 vs Adams F2 vs Courtois vs Blessing 1541

CSR

Which one do you like best?

Rapier232 · Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:36 pm Post subject:

Kanstul 1525
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robbrand · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:59 am Post subject:

Which Courtois would that be? I would venture to say that any Courtois flugel in good condition would at the very least be in the same league as the others (or better) but it would help to know which model you're referring to.
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TKSop · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:28 am Post subject:

robbrand · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:27 am Post subject:

Amazing how a company can get away with selling $3,000 flugelhorns that are total rubbish! I guess Sergei Nakariakov was just lucky that he hit upon a good one, because he sounds pretty good on his Courtois.
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B&S Challenger 1 3137
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TKSop · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:46 am Post subject:

CSR · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:55 am Post subject:

I was considering a courtois flughelhorn 155-1-0 in silver. - I just demoed the Kanstul for about 3 weeks. It was used, awesome and the seller wanted too much for it.

TKSop · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:11 am Post subject:

If you get a good one, the 155 is more than capable... I just wouldn't, personally, buy one sight unseen.

Then again, nor would I buy most horns sight unseen - I presume these particular horns you're asking about are ones you could get access to try?

CSR · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:44 am Post subject:

Actually, I'm running into troubling getting horns to demo. BuckEyeBrass in Ohio has been awesome in trying to help me. The 155 is just the least expensive Courtois out there right now..Literally $1000 less than any of the other models in the Courtois lines.

TKSop · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:00 am Post subject:

But you wouldn't have chance to play it first?

Have you considered adding the Yamaha 631/731 to the list?
Plenty out there, consistent from one to the next and usually not too expensive used - still best to try in person first even then, but if you absolutely can't then Yamaha's consistency comes into play... As does their popularity if you decide you don't like it and want it gone.

CSR · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 12:30 pm Post subject:

I've tried both the Yamaha 631 and 731. I think you're correct that they are all manufactured to a consistent specification. In the end, I just wasn't thrilled with the tone of either. I really wanted to like Yamaha. In the end it wasn't that I disliked them, just didn't like either enough to buy. I felt the same way about the Getzen Eterna.

robbrand · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 12:45 pm Post subject:

If you’re paying that sort of money it’s obviously better if you could try out the horn before buying, to see if it suits you. But from a manufacturing point of view, I can assure you that, notwithstanding the above, a Courtois horn will be of the highest quality. They are manufactured by hand at the B&S factory in Germany, by craftsmen transplanted from the old Courtois facility in France. They are tested rigorously and I assure you they would not risk their reputation by putting a sub-standard horn on the market.
Courtois has been making trumpets since 1789 and I don’t think they ever turned out a bad instrument. They have made instruments for some of the greatest trumpet players in history. Herbert Clarke played a Courtois cornet. I own a Courtois trumpet that is now more than 30 years old, and it still plays beautifully, with butter-like valves, a dark and centered sound and beautiful intonation and response.
There was a period after 2006 when the company was acquired by Buffet Crampon when, so I heard, quality fell off (and they started producing student ranges) but I can’t vouch for that. I don’t think you can base your opinion of a manufacturer on your experience of one instrument that has been through the brass band wringer.
Courtois stopped making trumpets and cornets in 2013 and now produce only flugelhorns and trombones as the top-of-the-range brand for Buffet Crampon.
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B&S Challenger 1 3137
Courtois 113ML
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CSR · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 1:01 pm Post subject:

Thanks robbrand for the comments. I've consistently only heard good things about the Courtois. Do you have a fluglehorn preference?

jorgemtrp · New Member Joined: 21 May 2018 Posts: 1 Location: Maryland

id buy the f2 over any of those choices
ive owned the 1525 and f2... and spent some time on the blessings at my undergrad
to be fair the blessings were school horns so who knows how they sounded new
but, the f2 beat out the 1525 easy!

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

I have both an Adams F2 and a Kanstul 1525. My F2 has a red brass bell with a nickel silver flare. My 1525 has a copper bell.

They are both excellent flugelhorns. The sound of the 1525 is "fluffier" and more diffused than the sound of the F2. The sound of the F2 has more of an edge and is less diffused than the sound of the 1525. I owned the 1525 first and intentionally designed the F2 to produce the differences I've described.

In terms of mechanics/ergonomics the 1525 has regular throw valves and the F2 has short throw valves. I do like the short throw valves better.

The 1525 and the F2 are both top level flugelhorns. You can customize the bell material of the F2 to your aural preferences. I think Adams now offers a copper bell option on one of their other flugelhorn models and you could probably request a copper bell on an F2 as a custom option because Adams can make you anything you can think of and they're great to work with.

I do recommend J. Landress Brass of NYC as the best, most service oriented and most accommodating of the many Adams dealers available - J. Landress Brass had two custom Adams horns (an A8 and an F2) made for me and they turned out perfect.
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CSR · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:09 pm Post subject:

Thanks HERMOKIWI for the reply. What would you say to this horn?
link

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

It looks to be in good condition except for the ding in the bell (which is an easy fix). It's priced significantly below the price of a new one. You should check to see what the bell material is and also the gauge of the bell. Then compare that to the information on the Adams website to see if the specifications seem to align with the result you want. As always, when buying a horn on ebay you should use care and discretion and ask all questions up front.
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dstpt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1284

CSR · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:51 pm Post subject:

It looks like the Adams and the Kanstul are getting the best reviews, followed by the Courtois and then the Blessing..so far:). Thanks for great comments!

flugler · Regular Member Joined: 26 Jun 2014 Posts: 30

I know I'm going to be poo-pooed by this crowd, but after going through a mess of flugelhorns, I settled on a Dillon's (the New Jersey retailer). It is made in China (what???). Before you dismiss me altogether, listen to my story. I played a Getzen Eterna 3 valve for more than 30 years, and then discovered two notes that were badly out of tune. I tried Yamahas. Good intonation, but too bright. A modern Courtois: too much resistance. I finally bought a Schilke. Maybe I got a lemon, but the intonation was a disaster. I loved the build, the look, etc. but I just couldn't play the thing in tune. I was in New Jersey visiting family last year, and happened to pick up the Dillon. It sounded good and played in tune, so I bought it. And still playing it. Only a few hundred dollars, but it wasn't about the money. It works for me.
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