I’ve had my 1525 for maybe 10 years. I bought it from stock over the phone at Washington Music Center without playing one first, just on reputation. I love it. In my big band, 3 of the 4 in the section play a 1525 (with 1 Yamaha). I know 2 other players with a 1525.
I’m sure Adams makes a nice horn but I’ve not played one and don’t know anyone who owns one. _________________ Monette LTJ Bb
Getzen Severinsen Bb
Kanstul 1500 Bb
Kanstul 1525 flugel
Monette Prana B2S3, B2FL, B2LS3
Monette Prana FLG2
I know I'm going to be poo-pooed by this crowd, but after going through a mess of flugelhorns, I settled on a Dillon's (the New Jersey retailer). It is made in China (what???). Before you dismiss me altogether, listen to my story. I played a Getzen Eterna 3 valve for more than 30 years, and then discovered two notes that were badly out of tune. I tried Yamahas. Good intonation, but too bright. A modern Courtois: too much resistance. I finally bought a Schilke. Maybe I got a lemon, but the intonation was a disaster. I loved the build, the look, etc. but I just couldn't play the thing in tune. I was in New Jersey visiting family last year, and happened to pick up the Dillon. It sounded good and played in tune, so I bought it. And still playing it. Only a few hundred dollars, but it wasn't about the money. It works for me.
Actually, "flugler," I'm not going to poo-poo you. (Intead, I'll pp, me! Ha! Just had to write it!) No, seriously, even though I've owned two Adams flugels in the past year, I am not surprised that some of these horns that some refer to as "doublers' flugels" are actually acceptable. Over the past two years, I've picked up a few trumpets/flugels/piccolos in various keys that were built in China. (I wanted to experiment with soldering some triggers, so I bought some very inexpensive horns.) Some of these horns play surprisingly well.
I say, if it feels right, blows right, and plays right for what you need, then keep it and use it (and save a boatload of money that many of the rest of us are spending!).
If you can find a horn that works for you and less expensive..then why not. One of the reasons I wanted comments about the Blessing. I've heard some videos of it and it sounded awesome.
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12662 Location: Gardena, Ca
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:23 pm Post subject:
CSR wrote:
If you can find a horn that works for you and less expensive..then why not. One of the reasons I wanted comments about the Blessing. I've heard some videos of it and it sounded awesome.
If one cannot try, listening to others play the instruments being considered is reasonable. However, a good player can make any horn sound good.
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 1323 Location: Twixt the Moor and the Sea, UK
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:18 pm Post subject:
And if you are looking for a top quality Flugel, you must not overlook the Eclipse. _________________ "Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".
Smith-Watkins Bb
Will Spencer Bb
Eclipse Flugel
Smith Watkins K2 Cornet
JP152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle
Slightly relevant response here: I played a Courtois 154R for 10 years or so. I loved the sound and playability of that horn. The valves were not the best but everything else about the horn was great; even blow, great intonation and a gorgeous sound! I bought it at Rayburn's in Boston where I did a blind test with my brother (also a musician) and several store employees. All of them prefered the sound of the Courtois. I didn't love the large bell, mostly because I had trouble fitting it comfortably into my gigbag, but it was a beautiful horn. I sold it when I was short on cash and then later ended up on a Kanstul 925. I actually preferred the sound of the 925 to the 1525. Maybe it's a large bell thing, but they are both nice horns.
Joined: 29 Dec 2014 Posts: 120 Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:12 am Post subject:
CSR wrote:
Thanks robbrand for the comments. I've consistently only heard good things about the Courtois. Do you have a fluglehorn preference?
No, but I haven't played too many flugelhorns - I've played a Yamaha 631 and a Boosey & Hawkes Imperial... and would love to get my hands on a Courtois or any of the others in your list. I think that a flugel, given the many variations in bore, bell size, taper etc. is probably a highly personal thing, more so than a trumpet. Of the above I loved the Yamaha; the B&H not so much (mine played out of tune and I sold it). _________________ B&S Challenger 1 3137
Courtois 113ML
B&H Imperial Flugel
Besson USA 620 cornet
The 1525 is a solid horn. Courtois, I know by reputation, are also good flugels. May favorites are the classic Yamaha 631 with rose brass bell and, of course, the Couesnon.
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5677 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:14 am Post subject:
Right now if someone handed me a wad of cash so that I go out and buy a new flugel of my choice, I'd find a lacquered Kanstul 925 with a copper bell, although to be fair, I've not once ever had the chance to try a 1525.
The 925 I had was wonderful. Smooth, silky, dark sound, nice blow - if I had a complaint it would be the Amdado water keys.
I hand picked that from PiCK music near York, PA after having play tested a number of different horns:
The Yamaha Z was a sweet flugel too - I liked that a lot, but it was more expensive than the Kanstul, and there was something about the silkiness of sound of the Kanstul 925 that just drew me in.
I used it on this recording, made against a backing track with an SM57 microphone and a Blue Icicle XLR/USB converter.
You sound very nice on that recording ! Now that you mention the Yamaha Z, I had a chance to A&B test a Yamaha Z with a vintage Couesnon. Two other very good players also did the test with me. The Yamaha Z was always very warm and lush. The design is actually based on a vintage Couesnon and they were trying to get as close to that sound as possible. As compared to the Z flugel, the Couesnon was also warm and lush, but the Couesnon also seemed to have a sort of added fluffiness or "pillow-y" sound, in a good way. Some people describe it as "buttery". Something you can't describe the words, but it was very pleasing to the ear.
I may have an Adams f2 lined up to demo. Also, in a couple of weeks I am also hoping to try a Jupiter, Blessing a Conn and a Carol Legend. If I get to play any of these horns I'll report what I find. Actually there's a Courtois on sale by someone in this forum's marketplace, but I can't get him to answer my emails about it. Of course, many horns sound and play different even if their pedigree is similar.
I may have an Adams f2 lined up to demo. Also, in a couple of weeks I am also hoping to try a Jupiter, Blessing a Conn and a Carol Legend. If I get to play any of these horns I'll report what I find. Actually there's a Courtois on sale by someone in this forum's marketplace, but I can't get him to answer my emails about it. Of course, many horns sound and play different even if their pedigree is similar.
I know it's not listed in you posts, but if you can find a Flip Oakes Wild Thing owner somewhere close by (Flip will help with that), I think it would be worth making the effort to sample it. I have owned or tried all of the Kanstul flugelhorn and also an Adams or two. In my opinion, the Wild Thing plays, handles and sounds as good as any other flugelhorn; better than most. Even the Inderbinen Wood at twice the price is no better and probably not as good, IMO.
If you are looking to buy a premium instrument, I would not pass by the chance to try a Wild Thing. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
I only found a couple of videos for the flip oakes wild thing flugelhorn. It does sound nice, though I'd like to find some additional videos. I listened to Joe Ardinger and the Horn trader.
Right now if someone handed me a wad of cash so that I go out and buy a new flugel of my choice, I'd find a lacquered Kanstul 925 with a copper bell, although to be fair, I've not once ever had the chance to try a 1525.
I had the chance to play on a 14 year old Courtois 154R yesterday. It was very nice. When compared with the Kanstul 1525 Here's how it went for me...
1. The Kanstul had a warmer sound though the Courtois was a bit darker. I think I liked the Kanstul better on this one, though I suppose it mostly depends on what type of music you are playing.
2. The Courtois probably had a better upper register.
3. The Courtois probably slotted better,
4. The shorter valve block on the Courtois made it faster blasting through runs.
5. The Courtoi's intonation seemed slightly better.
6. The Kanstul was more fun to play.
7. The Kanstul is far prettier with it's large copper bell.
I did not play them side by side and I played the Courtois in a 6x6 concrete room for about 1/2 hour vs 3 weeks in the Kanstul. That could accoutn for the tome preference.
In the end it's the $2500 price tag on a 14 year old horn that will probably keep me from buying it.
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