• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Kanstul 1525 vs Adams F2 vs Courtois vs Blessing 1541


Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MarkZ
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 615

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve had my 1525 for maybe 10 years. I bought it from stock over the phone at Washington Music Center without playing one first, just on reputation. I love it. In my big band, 3 of the 4 in the section play a 1525 (with 1 Yamaha). I know 2 other players with a 1525.

I’m sure Adams makes a nice horn but I’ve not played one and don’t know anyone who owns one.
_________________
Monette LTJ Bb
Getzen Severinsen Bb
Kanstul 1500 Bb
Kanstul 1525 flugel
Monette Prana B2S3, B2FL, B2LS3
Monette Prana FLG2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dstpt
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 1272

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flugler wrote:
I know I'm going to be poo-pooed by this crowd, but after going through a mess of flugelhorns, I settled on a Dillon's (the New Jersey retailer). It is made in China (what???). Before you dismiss me altogether, listen to my story. I played a Getzen Eterna 3 valve for more than 30 years, and then discovered two notes that were badly out of tune. I tried Yamahas. Good intonation, but too bright. A modern Courtois: too much resistance. I finally bought a Schilke. Maybe I got a lemon, but the intonation was a disaster. I loved the build, the look, etc. but I just couldn't play the thing in tune. I was in New Jersey visiting family last year, and happened to pick up the Dillon. It sounded good and played in tune, so I bought it. And still playing it. Only a few hundred dollars, but it wasn't about the money. It works for me.

Actually, "flugler," I'm not going to poo-poo you. (Intead, I'll pp, me! Ha! Just had to write it!) No, seriously, even though I've owned two Adams flugels in the past year, I am not surprised that some of these horns that some refer to as "doublers' flugels" are actually acceptable. Over the past two years, I've picked up a few trumpets/flugels/piccolos in various keys that were built in China. (I wanted to experiment with soldering some triggers, so I bought some very inexpensive horns.) Some of these horns play surprisingly well.

I say, if it feels right, blows right, and plays right for what you need, then keep it and use it (and save a boatload of money that many of the rest of us are spending!).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CSR
Regular Member


Joined: 19 May 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can find a horn that works for you and less expensive..then why not. One of the reasons I wanted comments about the Blessing. I've heard some videos of it and it sounded awesome.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
CSR
Regular Member


Joined: 19 May 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did get to demo a 1525 for about 3 weeks. It really is a great horn, however the one I tried was too expensive for a 16 year old horn.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12647
Location: Gardena, Ca

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CSR wrote:
If you can find a horn that works for you and less expensive..then why not. One of the reasons I wanted comments about the Blessing. I've heard some videos of it and it sounded awesome.


If one cannot try, listening to others play the instruments being considered is reasonable. However, a good player can make any horn sound good.

Keep this in mind as you continue your safari.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Rapier232
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 1320
Location: Twixt the Moor and the Sea, UK

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if you are looking for a top quality Flugel, you must not overlook the Eclipse.
_________________
"Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".

Smith-Watkins Bb
Will Spencer Bb
Eclipse Flugel
Smith Watkins K2 Cornet
JP152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TKSop
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1719
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rapier232 wrote:
And if you are looking for a top quality Flugel, you must not overlook the Eclipse.


Untouchable IME... Might be difficult to find one in budget over there?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hudson08
Regular Member


Joined: 17 Feb 2017
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slightly relevant response here: I played a Courtois 154R for 10 years or so. I loved the sound and playability of that horn. The valves were not the best but everything else about the horn was great; even blow, great intonation and a gorgeous sound! I bought it at Rayburn's in Boston where I did a blind test with my brother (also a musician) and several store employees. All of them prefered the sound of the Courtois. I didn't love the large bell, mostly because I had trouble fitting it comfortably into my gigbag, but it was a beautiful horn. I sold it when I was short on cash and then later ended up on a Kanstul 925. I actually preferred the sound of the 925 to the 1525. Maybe it's a large bell thing, but they are both nice horns.

My (slightly more than) $.02 Have fun in the hunt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
robbrand
Veteran Member


Joined: 29 Dec 2014
Posts: 120
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CSR wrote:
Thanks robbrand for the comments. I've consistently only heard good things about the Courtois. Do you have a fluglehorn preference?


No, but I haven't played too many flugelhorns - I've played a Yamaha 631 and a Boosey & Hawkes Imperial... and would love to get my hands on a Courtois or any of the others in your list. I think that a flugel, given the many variations in bore, bell size, taper etc. is probably a highly personal thing, more so than a trumpet. Of the above I loved the Yamaha; the B&H not so much (mine played out of tune and I sold it).
_________________
B&S Challenger 1 3137
Courtois 113ML
B&H Imperial Flugel
Besson USA 620 cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Kazz
Regular Member


Joined: 19 Apr 2018
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 1525 is a solid horn. Courtois, I know by reputation, are also good flugels. May favorites are the classic Yamaha 631 with rose brass bell and, of course, the Couesnon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trickg
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5675
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now if someone handed me a wad of cash so that I go out and buy a new flugel of my choice, I'd find a lacquered Kanstul 925 with a copper bell, although to be fair, I've not once ever had the chance to try a 1525.

The 925 I had was wonderful. Smooth, silky, dark sound, nice blow - if I had a complaint it would be the Amdado water keys.

I hand picked that from PiCK music near York, PA after having play tested a number of different horns:

Bach Strad Flugel
Kanstul 1025 "Chicago"
Yamaha 631/731
Yamaha 8310Z
Jupiter 846L

The Yamaha Z was a sweet flugel too - I liked that a lot, but it was more expensive than the Kanstul, and there was something about the silkiness of sound of the Kanstul 925 that just drew me in.

I used it on this recording, made against a backing track with an SM57 microphone and a Blue Icicle XLR/USB converter.


Link

_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kazz
Regular Member


Joined: 19 Apr 2018
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You sound very nice on that recording ! Now that you mention the Yamaha Z, I had a chance to A&B test a Yamaha Z with a vintage Couesnon. Two other very good players also did the test with me. The Yamaha Z was always very warm and lush. The design is actually based on a vintage Couesnon and they were trying to get as close to that sound as possible. As compared to the Z flugel, the Couesnon was also warm and lush, but the Couesnon also seemed to have a sort of added fluffiness or "pillow-y" sound, in a good way. Some people describe it as "buttery". Something you can't describe the words, but it was very pleasing to the ear.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CSR
Regular Member


Joined: 19 May 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may have an Adams f2 lined up to demo. Also, in a couple of weeks I am also hoping to try a Jupiter, Blessing a Conn and a Carol Legend. If I get to play any of these horns I'll report what I find. Actually there's a Courtois on sale by someone in this forum's marketplace, but I can't get him to answer my emails about it. Of course, many horns sound and play different even if their pedigree is similar.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
shofarguy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7003
Location: AZ

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CSR wrote:
I may have an Adams f2 lined up to demo. Also, in a couple of weeks I am also hoping to try a Jupiter, Blessing a Conn and a Carol Legend. If I get to play any of these horns I'll report what I find. Actually there's a Courtois on sale by someone in this forum's marketplace, but I can't get him to answer my emails about it. Of course, many horns sound and play different even if their pedigree is similar.


I know it's not listed in you posts, but if you can find a Flip Oakes Wild Thing owner somewhere close by (Flip will help with that), I think it would be worth making the effort to sample it. I have owned or tried all of the Kanstul flugelhorn and also an Adams or two. In my opinion, the Wild Thing plays, handles and sounds as good as any other flugelhorn; better than most. Even the Inderbinen Wood at twice the price is no better and probably not as good, IMO.

If you are looking to buy a premium instrument, I would not pass by the chance to try a Wild Thing.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12647
Location: Gardena, Ca

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:

Link

Patrick,

I have great respect for your playing and advice. That said, I hear what I would call “trumpety core” in that recording. It is not what I expected.

If I didn’t know I might have suspected it was a trumpet.

My <2 worth.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
CSR
Regular Member


Joined: 19 May 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only found a couple of videos for the flip oakes wild thing flugelhorn. It does sound nice, though I'd like to find some additional videos. I listened to Joe Ardinger and the Horn trader.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
qcm
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Posts: 1281
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick,

When I listened to your recording, I immediately heard a flugelhorn, not a trumpety core.

Nicely done BTW.

-Dave
_________________
Dave Edwards

Kanstuls, LA Benges and a Selmer picc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
gchun01
Veteran Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2013
Posts: 270

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
Right now if someone handed me a wad of cash so that I go out and buy a new flugel of my choice, I'd find a lacquered Kanstul 925 with a copper bell, although to be fair, I've not once ever had the chance to try a 1525.


Link


Nice job, Patrick. The flugel sits really nicely with the track. Did you do the backing track yourself as well?

Garry
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CSR
Regular Member


Joined: 19 May 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the chance to play on a 14 year old Courtois 154R yesterday. It was very nice. When compared with the Kanstul 1525 Here's how it went for me...
1. The Kanstul had a warmer sound though the Courtois was a bit darker. I think I liked the Kanstul better on this one, though I suppose it mostly depends on what type of music you are playing.
2. The Courtois probably had a better upper register.
3. The Courtois probably slotted better,
4. The shorter valve block on the Courtois made it faster blasting through runs.
5. The Courtoi's intonation seemed slightly better.
6. The Kanstul was more fun to play.
7. The Kanstul is far prettier with it's large copper bell.

I did not play them side by side and I played the Courtois in a 6x6 concrete room for about 1/2 hour vs 3 weeks in the Kanstul. That could accoutn for the tome preference.

In the end it's the $2500 price tag on a 14 year old horn that will probably keep me from buying it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group