Interesting Experience with Pedal Tones

Speed

Although I have played trumpet for many years, playing pedal tones is relatively new to me. Frankly, my progress has been a bit frustrating.

When I play an open pedal "C" it's really not a "C" but more of a "Bb" As I go lower, the same thing happens with each fingering. In other words, from "C" and downward, the notes I'm producing are REALLY flat.

Last weekend, I was on the road staying in a motel. To practice, I used a Sshhmute. When I played the pedals with the Sshhmute, the pedals were in tune, not flat like they usually are.

I tried it again when I got home. With the Sshhmute, the pedals are in tune. Without the Sshhmute, from "C" downward, the pedals are about a full step flat.

What's going on there with the Sshhmute?

Abraxas · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:51 am Post subject:

I'm hardly worthy of giving advice, but I take it the mute is providing more resistance and propping up your notes. Have you tried different MPCs ? Maybe shallower cups or narrower throats would provide the same effect ? I just came into a set of Curry's and am struggling to keep my notes from getting sharp without touching the tuning slides.

Richard III · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:05 am Post subject:

If the only goal is to play pedals in tune right now, play with a very open mouthpiece. That forces you to use the air and relax the chops and bingo, the pedals all come out nice and in tune.
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

Speed · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:51 am Post subject:

It's not keeping me up nights that I'm playing really flat on the pedals, but I am working to be able to play them in tune.

I play a Marcinkiewicz CG-P with a #20 throat, which is a pretty open mouthpiece. Figuring that the resistance of the Sshhmute had something to do with it, I tried the same exercise with a Bach Commercial 3MV mouthpiece, which is pretty shallow, with the same results, with and without the Sshhmute.

Clearly the resistance of the Sshhmute is resulting in my pedals being in tune. It's making me wonder if there is some adjustment I can make (lips, tongue, etc.) to replicate the result I'm getting with the Sshhumte. It's not like I'm going to practice with Sshhmute just to get my pedals in tune.

oxleyk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4180

Try the pedal C with the main water lever open.

bach_again

Speed · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:47 am Post subject:

Thanks, Mike. I am working with a well known teacher, and while he assigns me material that includes pedals, he seems to think I'm progressing adequately, and that playing the pedals in tune will come with time. They are a small part of the lesson plans. I have not yet discussed the Sshhmute thing with my teacher, as I hate to bother him with every little revelation I have.

pepperdean · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:29 am Post subject:

I agree that practicing pedal tones can have a very beneficial influence on helping your lips learn to work without the aid of pressure and pivot. They can also produce disastrous effects if done incorrectly. Since you have a teacher, who is hopefully monitoring your efforts, I'll assume you're approaching them safely.

When I began pedal exercises with Carmine Caruso, he initially had me play from low F through pedal C using 1-2-3 for a fingering. We quickly went to normal fingerings but, at his suggestion, I used 2-3 for pedal C until I got the feel and development to play it open. Pedal C is a touchy note but it will come around and, once you get it, you won't lose the ability to play it open.

Best wishes,
Alan

Andy Del · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:28 am Post subject:

So, if one is studying with a good teacher, they assign some pedal work an are happy with progress, why is the student apprently obsessing but it?

It is one thing to have a good teacher, but a far different thing to actually listen to them and follow advice!

cheers

Andy
_________________
so many horns, so few good notes...

kalijah · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:42 am Post subject:

Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1886

Some time ago I worked through theme Maggio book. Inlearned how to play open pedal C. After which I couldn't play anything else. I have long ago given up pedal tones. Proceed with caution. You have been warned.

Speed · Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 2:00 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the replies.

Andy, I am not obsessing over the pedals at all. If anything, I probably tend to gloss right over them and move on to something more interesting. My teacher said early on that with time, I would be able to play the pedals in tune. Would I like for that to happen faster? Sure, but as I said earlier, I'm not staying up nights worrying about it.

Imagine my surprise when I practiced with the sshhmute - not exactly my favorite way to spend time - and the pedals came out in tune. It just made me wonder if there was something technique-wise I could modify to reach the same result without the sshhmute.

Judging from the replies, apparently there's not. Just keep on doing what I'm doing and eventually expect the pedals to come out in tune. I have to say that they are CLOSER to being in tune now than when I initially started including the pedals as part of my routine.

Darryl, your comment about the sshhmute "smearing the peaks and troughs and makes notes easier to bend up or down" fits into the other thing I noticed about playing with that device. Flexibility exercises were pretty effortless with it.

Take care,
Marc Speed