Getting bounced on big band parts

[BGinNJ]

Last year I found a rehearsal big band to play with, very welcoming to new players. They do occasional gigs, like for the church that provides the rehearsal space, and there's a performance coming up soon.

I've been a regular at the weekly rehearsals, though this year has been very light, often entire sections missing. The leader, who was the lead trumpet, hasn't been coming. Often I'm the only trumpet, so I've stepped up to playing the first parts (honestly I'm more comfortable with 2nd), but there's another trumpeter (who was one of the founders and helps run things) who plays first when she shows up. She ran the last rehearsal, and has been reaching out to get players to fill out the sections for the upcoming gig- including a guy she says has "Maynard chops" to play first. Which probably means I'll get bumped to 3rd trumpet.

I realize the band is struggling and disorganized, but since I've been showing up for rehearsals and practicing the parts, I can't help but be a little miffed. Is this just my ego, should I take one for the team?

[iiipopes]

In community bands over the years I have taken more for the team than most, to the point that my Avatar on TubeNet reads, "Utility Infielder." When in my community band we had a plethora of tubas a couple of years ago and no euphs, I actually volunteered to purchase a euph to play the missing parts.

I am more concerned that I get to play and contribute than which part I play. Quite the contrary, I pride myself in that all the way from principal trumpet to tuba, if a part is missing and needs covering, I can do it where nobody else available can, even to the point of shoving a mute in the euph bell and playing bassoon parts if that is what it takes.

Since your band also has instrumentation issues, and you are a valued player, I suggest this attitude and approach going forward.
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[BGinNJ]

That's a good attitude,to look at it as I'm more valuable for being versatile.

And yeah, I also play guitar probably a third of the time to fill in for the regular guitarist/singer. It's not like I can be a lead trumpet diva, either, I was just enjoying giving it a try and growing into it.

[fraserhutch]

This is a really difficult and hard call, something that most of us have had to deal with at one point or another.

Some us want to step up and lead, to spread our wings, to challenge ourselves. Others are content to contribute wherever needed. Some are there for companionship and community.

To make this more complicated, the goals of the ensembles vary over time. It may start out as a 'place to play', where the quality of the music isn't the be-all-end-all (that is not meant in a derogatory manner). Others exist as a means to allow members to hone and maintain their skills. Still others exist to make the best music they can. It's a continuum.
These goals and aspirations also change over time, what started out as a 'serious' ensemble may mutate into more of a community type band.

So in the case of the 'serious' bands, it's fairly straightforward who would sit where - the best person suited for that job. However, what about more casual ensembles? In many of there ensembles you have legacy players ensconced n certain seats. They may or may not be the best player for that chair in the band, but seniority in these types of ensembles matters. Some of these ensembles get ambitious with their programs for performances and bring in ringers.

I feel for you, having been on both sides of your fence. I like iiipopes' advice, and I salute him/her for their attitude.

Good luck! And most importantly, have fun....
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[oldenick]

Sounds like you have done the work and deserve to be heard. You should have no problem asking to play lead (or second) on a few tunes. That is a reasonable request. It doesn't have to be the whole concert just pick what you sound best on. Speak up for yourself, it's rare that anyone else will.

Good Luck
Nick
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[khedger]

I'll admit to not having much experience with community bands. I think though, that if I was going to play in one my attitude would be "Whatever, I'm just here to play...."
If you feel REALLY strongly about the issue, then you might suggest to the leaders of the band that you really want to play lead on some of the tunes, or lobby them and the trumpet section for a seat shifting policy where everybody plays some of the book on different parts.
One thing though. If you're going to make a case for playing a particular part, make sure you can deliver!

[iiipopes]

Following up on the previous post, and observing that as community band players we may or may not have all the endurance we used to when we played more than we do now (I don't mean to speak for anybody or cast aspersions, just relating the reality of my circumstance):

It would not hurt to talk about switching parts around on a tune here and there, both because you have fun playing a particular part on a particular chart (not necessarily lead) and/or giving the "designated" lead a chops break.
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[kfeldt]

[THE BD]

Sharing parts on different tunes is pretty common if your band mates want to do so. I routinely split lead and 3rd with the other lead in a big band I play with.

When it comes from being bounced off a part though, for me it tends to be a big change. I play a lot of sax, particularly bass and bari saxes. I'm often taking one for the team and moving up to the low reeds!
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Yeah, I did that!

[Brad361]

That unfortunately sounds pretty typical of most community or rehearsal bands, and frankly I would probably be a bit annoyed if I were in your position. I do think that requesting some splitting of the lead part, even with the guy with “Maynard chops” is not unreasonable, but ultimately, if they won’t agree to that your choices are probably to either go with their flow, or go elsewhere.

Brad
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[malco]

I love all this "seats" business! I am the bottom of the barrel on cornet , but have made steady progress since i joined , but all insisting on the duffers chair means that the grown-ups have tried to inveigle me into playing 2nd and once first parts ! A little bit of reverse psychology can go a long way.
It also means i can look after my chops over a long session.
If it is not enjoyable , leave the building.

[RandyTX]

The question, which only you can answer, is can you play lead on the parts in question convincingly? Are they looking for someone else to play parts that are possibly too high for you to pull off well, or is it just somebody else wanting them for themselves?

As others have said, it's fairly common in a lot of big bands for the parts to be rotated around. I play in one with a guy that's got high chops for days, and he usually plays the really screaming stuff, and I end up playing 1st on a few myself on some of the stuff that isn't quite so demanding. The entire section probably has 1st on at least one or two songs at every gig. Same with solos.

I think it helps promote the idea of working together as a team on this stuff and avoids one player feeling like they're 'stuck' on a lower part all the time.
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[BGinNJ]

I can, and have, played the 1rst parts for our upcoming set in rehearsals. A couple, though, are a bit too high for comfort for me to play lead for the whole set. I admit I'm more comfortable with 2nd. The person who made the call for a sub, though, hasn't been coming to most of the rehearsals. She's a semi-pro who works with vocal groups as well, a good trumpet player but hasn't been keeping her chops up.
Seems like the rhythm section, half the trombones, and at least a sax and trumpet will all be filling in without a rehearsal. I just hope it isn't a train wreck.

[khedger]

When I went to Berklee, I was asked by one of the faculty members to play in his big band consisting of faculty and students. It was not one of the school bands. This teacher played the fourth trumpet book and did all of the arrangements and found it difficult to effectively rehearse and lead the band and play the trumpet chair.
I went in and played the fourth chair, and was very happy to do so. It was a great band with a great trumpet section. I was (and am) a decent improvisor, but never did any solo work being on the fourth chair.
One night, the second player had to leave early and we were starting to rehearse a piece on which he had an extended solo. The leader asked me to play the part for the the rehearsal.
When the solo came up I played. Nothing earth shattering, but I played a nice, competent solo. After the tune, everybody was kind of looking at me, and the leader was just staring at me open mouthed for a second or two. The asked "Why didn't you tell me you could play jazz??" To which I replied "You never asked...."
There are good players everywhere in bands that we often never get to hear really step out and let us hear what they can do. Swapping parts and being open to change can help us to discover these talents.

PS Then the SOB did a killer arrangement of 'Along Came Betty' and I got to step all over my d**k in a concert at the Berklee Performance Center.
BACK TO EARTH!

[TKSop]

It's tough to get a good balance - different groups have different priorities overall, and not all members will always fit perfectly (some groups deal with this better than others).

Priorities such as fairness and performance quality can often be at loggerheads... Especially when it comes to situations such as deputies filling incomplete sections.

Obviously every group has these conflicts - when you've got a full section of regulars, do you split up everything in the name of "fairness" or do you put the best player for the job on each part at all times?

Accepting where you can have the most positive impact overall and supporting each other regardless of ability is how the best groups function - even in groups where every single member is a strong player, when the results come first, egos have to be left at the door if you want the group you play for to be of the highest standard it possibly can.

I couldn't agree more with the poster celebrating versatility - we all contribute to the success of the group with our playing AND our attitude.

[deleted_user_02066fd]

40 or so years back I was at a community college that had an associate degree program in music. The dept. head was a very well known trombonist. In our jazz ensemble we had a guy playing the jazz chair who was and still is a monster jazz player. The problem was his reliability and attitude. He would blow off rehearsals and performances and was always welcomed back with open arms. He usually just didn't feel like showing up.
I have pretty good ears and would usually cover his parts when he didn't show up. As soon as he returned, all the solos went back to him. It was very frustrating how much the director kissed this guys ass and enabled him.
When he left the school I took over the jazz chair. Funny thing is, the director made a comment how much I had improved. I sarcastically told him I could always blow the changes but you rareley ever gave me a chance. I don't think he expected me respond the way I did.

[khedger]

I NEVER tolerate a blase attitude from anybody, no matter how they play, in any band that I run. I've always said "Having the next Jaco in the band does me no good if he doesn't show up!"

[Lionel]

The solution to maintaining first chair is to keep at it, keep showing up and be willing to do more work than the next fellow is willing to do.

Most trumpet players lack the conviction necessary to blow lead. That and they refuse to acknowledge their weaknesses. Let alone try to fix them. So if you (the o/p) continue doing the things most others refuse to do? At some point you will be chosen to stay on the lead chair. Regardless of most other people with supposed "Maynard chops".

And let's examine this mysterious person with the alleged great lead trumpet chops:

Why isn't he at rehearsal every week like you are? Also I have found that these supposed "great players" whom for some reason people talk about but never show up for practice are often musicians with far bigger reputations than actual ability.

The first fellow I ever met whose reputation as "a great high note player" was someone from back in college. In fact he wasnt even a music major! It was true that he did play in the Navy Band for a while. However when I offered him my lead chart the first time we rehearsed together?

He completely missed a mere high D natural! This was a fellow with supposed "double C chops". Yet I had to rescue him and the band from his inability to play lead on this tune. In fact on the chart in question, (a Clare Fischer tune) the lead trumpet comes in on that high D. Its called "The Duke". The lead player is supposed to nail that D hard. And I always did. Even just as a mere freshman music major.

Clearly there is a tendency of some people, particularly saxists to exaggerate the high note abilities of trumpet players. In fact my buddy Tony tends to inflate my resume. Bragging that "Lionel plays double C's".

Well not often. And only rarely on the bandstand. It's not really in my usable range. Never the less this tale shows the tendency of others to inflate the abilities of trumpet players and other musicians. So you shouldnt feel surprised when you finally meet this "Maynard chops" fellow. Only to find that he's really just very average.

What I would do if I were the o/p would be just continue but develop some powerful lead chops with good endurance and a big sound. Then if some bandleader tries to give my lead book to some part timer or friend of his? Well I'd threaten to leave. Politely of course but suggest that they're being unfair.

But again I would bet that this mystery lead player is exactly that. More a concept than a reality. At least this is what Ive seen in the past. But if the fellow does start making all the rehearsals? And he's at least as strong as you are or better? Share the book with him.

My attitude about musicians who play well or better than me is different than many other fellow's reaction. If someone plays better than me? I'm pleased just to work with him. Maybe he'll be able to help me on gigs and vice versa. When after 3 hours of heavy lead I'm feeling cooked and in need of relief. I well remember a night when a bandleader pulled me aside. Asking me if I minded if another fellow shared my lead book.

Being older ( and hopefully wiser) than in my younger days I told the leader no problem. That I was grateful for his help. In fact only a month later my upper lip became badly infected from an injury unrelated to trumpet playing. Yet we had a very important gig. I was so grateful to have the other man's help. I really dodged a bullet. As without his support? We'd have had no lead trumpet player. My lip swiftly healed. But during the described period I could barely sustain a quarter note. Let alone a dog gone heavy lead book.

Then the following News Years this same guy who bailed me out fell completely apart by the 2nd set. He was very glad that I was there. What goes around comes around. In a good way sometimes too.

PS: I am a little concerned however about the lackadaisical attitude of this band's leadership. As during most of my career, either amateur or professional I've usually found those people running bands to make poor decisions. That and to not show enough initiative. Nor work ethic. Particularly in the area of promoting the group. Consequently I've left many bands. Sadly most bandleaders don't really work hard enough. In fact they often take advantage of their sidemen and deprive them of great opportunities. And let's face it, lead trumpet playing is a rare and very demanding skill. One often requiring a very practice dependent strategy.

From my perspective? It can be more than a little annoying to take a bunch of crap from a bandleader. I dont mind a little criticism but his job isnt anywhere near so hard as my own. Indeed I usually leave groups where the bandleader is domineering. Especially if he's not working as hard as myself.

One band I left a couple years ago had a leader with a nasty personality. Condescending etc. Plus he was a trumpet player but one who wholly lacked the chops to blow lead!!! I can't work with someone like that. And most lead players will feel exactly the same. In fact the guy probably hates me. Just because I have chops but he doesn't. So he liked to make snide comments whenever I made some small mistake on a really hard, sightread. Life is too short.

Heck maybe this fellow with "Maynard chops" is the real deal. However he just doesn't like the leadership of your band. I'm suspicious of them myself frankly.
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[trickg]

Be humble and realistic enough to know how and where you fit in best - to me that's your best bet.

Case in point, back in the early 2000s I was subbing regularly in working area big band - I was doing almost every gig floating between the 3rd and 4th book and going to rehearsals regularly. I felt that I was a shoo-in the next time a full-time slot came open in the trumpet section.

And then this other guy came in and started subbing too. On the parts themselves he was easily my equal, but he soloed, and he was good at it. I don't solo for beans - never did. At that point I knew that I wasn't going to get the next full-time slot regardless of the fact that I was the guy who'd been there for the band for at least a year before he showed up on the scene.

That's exactly what happened too - he got the next open slot, and although my initial inclination was to be a bit butt-hurt about it, I had to be realistic about it too. If I was the bandleader, I'd have made the same choice - it was a no-brainer.

So I guess my advice is to try to put your ego on the shelf and understand your role in the section based on your strengths and weaknesses as a player as compared to the other members in the section.
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[homebilly]

i had been doing this mambo rehearsal band for a while where me and another player were always there. we passed the lead parts between us as the third guy didn't want any lead. i'm not a lead player but like to keep in shape when i can.

so now the leader puts together a public rehearsal and calls one of the young high note guys to help out. note that i didn't say lead player but high note guy. so he finally shows up 15 minutes late and i'm already on the lead chair. where i come from, too late charlie you sit on 4th but i decide to hand over the book to see what happens. well you guessed it, he hogs all of the lead and i sit on 4th. doesn't pass a thing. it doesn't even cross his mind. again, where i come from YOU DON'T SHOW UP LATE without consequences and YOU DON'T HOG LEAD PARTS.

well, after that i decided to bail and my part passing buddy came along and now they have no regulars and my friend and i have made ourselves permanently unavailable.

we are there to have fun and work on things that we need to work on. in my case i am on the jazz chair in general and like to stretch and work on my lead playing in rehearsal bands. as we aren't getting paid i better get something out of it other than filling a seat.
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